Israel strike Syrian SA-22

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sferrin

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Unread post15 May 2019, 23:29

SpudmanWP wrote:Syria has at least one S-300 and it would cover the capital no matter where you put it in Western Syria.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... ty-at-best

Don't forget that Russia has S-300 and S-400 systems in Syria that are likely in the Tartus area between the two Russian Bases. This puts those less than 100 miles from the Capital.


Did any of those sites ever attempt to shoot down Israeli aircraft? It's a bit like implying the F-22 isn't so hot because it never shot down any Russian Backfires dropping bombs in Syria.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post15 May 2019, 23:31

I seem to recall they shot down a friendly while trying to engage an Israeli jet.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 01:44

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:I seem to recall they shot down a friendly while trying to engage an Israeli jet.


With an S-300?
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Dragon029

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Unread post16 May 2019, 02:32

Negative, Russia gave that S-300 to Syria specifically because of that friendly fire incident (a Russian Il-20 being shot down by a Syrian S-200).
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Unread post16 May 2019, 03:00

Thanks for the details Dragon.
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Unread post16 May 2019, 04:04

sferrin wrote:Did any of those sites ever attempt to shoot down Israeli aircraft?
You're assuming they could even see them. :roll:
sferrin wrote:It's a bit like implying the F-22 isn't so hot because it never shot down any Russian Backfires dropping bombs in Syria.
IIRC there is a dividing line that the US has attacked aircraft who crossed. IF the Backfire stayed on the other side, then they left them alone.
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marauder2048

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Unread post16 May 2019, 07:46

I just think the terrain in southern Syria and the Lebanense littoral is really conducive to Israeli ingress.

Makes you appreciate the value of the Golan Heights.

Seems like a hard problem for the Syrians to solve absent some persistent overhead early warning or the sort
ground-based air defense element density they achieved in 1973.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 11:56

SpudmanWP wrote:IIRC there is a dividing line that the US has attacked aircraft who crossed. IF the Backfire stayed on the other side, then they left them alone.


How do we know the Russian sites aren't operating under similar restrictions?
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Unread post16 May 2019, 17:46

Not only is there no line separating the north from the south, there is a Syrian S-300 within range of it's own capital but that has not stopped Israel from taking out targets in that area. When Russia brought in their systems, they proclaimed loud and proud that they would be fully integrated into the Syrian air defense network.
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sferrin

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Unread post16 May 2019, 17:50

SpudmanWP wrote:Not only is there no line separating the north from the south, there is a Syrian S-300 within range of it's own capital but that has not stopped Israel from taking out targets in that area. When Russia brought in their systems, they proclaimed loud and proud that they would be fully integrated into the Syrian air defense network.


Still, I think if an Israeli or US aircraft flew right through the middle of the S-400 envelope Russia would be hesitant to shoot it down simply from the likely ramifications. Same reason we didn't see US fighters shooting down Backfires.
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Unread post16 May 2019, 19:05

But there is nothing stopping a Syrian S-300 from doing it.. unless they can't see it. Remember that a Syrian S-300 can lanuch based on a Russian S-300/400 queue.
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Unread post17 May 2019, 10:08

IMO, SA-22 is still 1970s concept. It's basically an upgraded 2S6 Tunguska which entered Soviet service in early 1980s. It's likely a powerful and dangerous system still and has some interesting features, but I'd say current Western systems are much more effective and survivable compared to it.

Currently Western systems for short- and medium range are going to systems like NASAMS, IRIS-T SLS, Spyder and SAMP/T. All these have highly accurate fire-and-forget missiles and system units can be spread over wide geographical areas. Most of these systems use AESA radars with superior performance (especially against small and LO targets), superior LPI features and EW resistance.So the sensors and launch units are widely separated, sensors are more difficult to detect and engage and missiles can come from multiple directions at the same time. Losing one radar is not that big problem as replacing it will be far cheaper than replacing system like Pantsir S1. In Pantsir S1 losing a vehicle means likely losing all the sensors, weapons and most importantly the trained crew. In Western systems it will be very difficult to kill anything else besides single radar.

The firepower and rate of fire of these Western systems can be huge with possibly even dozens of missiles in the air at the same time. Pantsir S1 and similar systems put all eggs in the same basket and have all the sensors and weapons combined. Also the ability to engage simultaneous targets is limited due to command guided missiles. Chinese are also going this road with their Sky Dragon 50 for example.
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sferrin

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Unread post17 May 2019, 11:42

SpudmanWP wrote:But there is nothing stopping a Syrian S-300 from doing it.. unless they can't see it. Remember that a Syrian S-300 can lanuch based on a Russian S-300/400 queue.


I think Russian participation, of any kind, in a shootdown of a US aircraft, might be more than Russia is willing to risk. If they were to do that it's not impossible that it would be open season on any Russian aircraft in or over Syria.
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Unread post17 May 2019, 14:29

sferrin wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:But there is nothing stopping a Syrian S-300 from doing it.. unless they can't see it. Remember that a Syrian S-300 can lanuch based on a Russian S-300/400 queue.


I think Russian participation, of any kind, in a shootdown of a US aircraft, might be more than Russia is willing to risk. If they were to do that it's not impossible that it would be open season on any Russian aircraft in or over Syria.


How you know, russian S400 or S300 have helped to Syrian S300 cueing some Israely fighter?

I think, Israel can not know it on case a Fighter will be downed.

So, Russians anounced time ago all systems are integraded on same network, so they can Help to the Syrian S-300 or pantsir or other assets.

And some fresh news.

Russia looking for replacement for “troubled” Pantsir air defense system
https://defence-blog.com/army/russia-lo ... ystem.html
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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 13:23

https://twitter.com/Obs_IL/status/1139836588408659968

Image

It seems that the #SAA dropped the idea of a new YJ-27 Radar at #Damascus Airport after it was destroyed Jan 22nd 2019 by the #IAF. HRSI reveal that the new radar has similarities with #Russian hardware, such as Flap Lid, Tombstone, CheeseBoard. Your input is welcome. #GEOINT


ImageSat Intl is silent. Waiting for the next round of air strikes to clear things up.
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