FC-31 stealth fighter thread.

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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element1loop

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Unread post03 Sep 2020, 22:23

milosh wrote:
element1loop wrote:
disconnectedradical wrote:Is PLAAF even interested in this? From what I can tell they’re not really committed to this thing. That said, it’s not like the F-35 can supercruise either, so not sure what the point of the above comment is other than nationalist chest beating.


I think the only way this works for PLAAF is if they redesign it for single AL-41 and settle for transonic F-117A level performance with light payload, and forget about A2A.


They have UCAVs for that, and those can carry more or bigger bombs/missiles then FC-31 (not so big weapon bay).


Fair point, although IMO a manned attack aircraft has massive advantages over a drone and will have that for many decades to come. I think everyone here understands the difference between human intelligence and a learning-machine's 'Ai' limitations in automation. If the West faces GPS's continuity being denied I'm pretty sure PLAAF faces comms, data and C3 being denied on top.

A manned aircraft with approximately AV-8B performance and approx classic Hornet range with light internal attack payload and a DAS-ski and EOTS plus directional datalink is still a very useful aircraft. It's just never going to be anything like an F-35A, and would be capable of little in A2A except a last ditch self-defense. Certainly much better than using a 4th-gen.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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jessmo112

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Unread post04 Sep 2020, 02:03

Corsair1963 wrote:
element1loop wrote:
They have you bluffed.


In what respect??? Clearly, not size as the J-31 is very similar in dimensions to other contemporaries. (F-35, KF-X, TFX, and AMCA)


Speaking of the latter types. Russia made a colossal mistake when it developed the PAK-FA (Su-57) over the Mikoyan LMFS. As the mid-sized Mig Stealth Fighter would have had far better export potential. Now nothing is left but the crying.

This in turn will give China much of the future Non-Western Fighter Market. Because Russia won't have anything to offer for another 20+ years at least and likely more.


We have been through tbis discussion before. The plane was built to mimic the F-35 but they don't have an engine that can give it F-35 performance.
Heck! Even the F-35 itself was over weight!
Its one thing to try and convince us this is a good copy of the F-35 its another thing to convince us that it overcame the originals design issues simply because CHINA stonq.
Empty spaces are heavy
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weasel1962

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Unread post04 Sep 2020, 04:09

If one doesn't have 1 engine, can someone explain why putting 2 engines then eliminates its competitiveness?

The RD-93 is however substantially less effective than the AL-31F or AL-31FN so if one is going to put 2, why put 2 RD-93s when one can have 2 AL-31Fs? That's logic I can understand. Could that be why the RD93 engine has not been inducted into the PLAAF and why the JF-17 was never inducted (they had the AL-31FN J-10s)? I leave forumers to decide for themselves.
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mixelflick

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Unread post04 Sep 2020, 14:31

It's likely just sticking AL-31F's (or anything from that engine family) just isn't feasible. It looks like it would be too big for the airframe, at least without a complete rear fuselage re-design. More importantly, this series of engines is old news - it'll be obsolete before they even field it. If this FC-31 is going to work, it's going to require new (likely indigenous) engines developing a lot more thrust in all parts of its flight envelope.
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gta4

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Unread post04 Sep 2020, 15:30

Believe or not, this jet is severely overweighted. I have reliable source claiming this jet is 2 tons heavier than F-35A
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milosh

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Unread post04 Sep 2020, 16:17

weasel1962 wrote:If one doesn't have 1 engine, can someone explain why putting 2 engines then eliminates its competitiveness?

The RD-93 is however substantially less effective than the AL-31F or AL-31FN so if one is going to put 2, why put 2 RD-93s when one can have 2 AL-31Fs? That's logic I can understand. Could that be why the RD93 engine has not been inducted into the PLAAF and why the JF-17 was never inducted (they had the AL-31FN J-10s)? I leave forumers to decide for themselves.


RD-33/93 is noticeable smaller then AL-31/117 so it fit in smaller aiframes. FC-31 will probable get RD-33MKV based on VK-10M, it is +100kN engine if WS-13E fails.
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weasel1962

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Unread post05 Sep 2020, 01:17

mixelflick wrote:It's likely just sticking AL-31F's (or anything from that engine family) just isn't feasible. It looks like it would be too big for the airframe, at least without a complete rear fuselage re-design. More importantly, this series of engines is old news - it'll be obsolete before they even field it. If this FC-31 is going to work, it's going to require new (likely indigenous) engines developing a lot more thrust in all parts of its flight envelope.


Or they just buy j-20s.
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mixelflick

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Unread post05 Sep 2020, 14:52

weasel1962 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:It's likely just sticking AL-31F's (or anything from that engine family) just isn't feasible. It looks like it would be too big for the airframe, at least without a complete rear fuselage re-design. More importantly, this series of engines is old news - it'll be obsolete before they even field it. If this FC-31 is going to work, it's going to require new (likely indigenous) engines developing a lot more thrust in all parts of its flight envelope.


Or they just buy j-20s.


I'm assuming you mean China itself. And I agree, it would make more sense to do so, at least if they can't overcome the F/C-31's design challenges. But buying more J-20's is also the problem... If I'm not mistaken, it has a "no export" mandate in the same way the F-22 does. Even if they open it up to foreign buyers, it's not going to be cheap and likely way overkill for most countries.

No, the F/C-31 (or something like it) has to happen. If they gave up, it would be a huge mistake. Why? Because by pursuing the SU-57 the Russians have more or less handed China the export market. Countries that can't get the F-35 but want at least a rudimentary stealth capability will give it a good, hard look.

In the next 10 years or so, many Russian client states Flankers and Fulcrums will be out of airframe life. Most of the Fulcrums already are. Yet in neither case does Russia have a true successor. It sure isn't going to be the SU-57, so their solution is..... keep updating the Flanker series? That can only continue for so long before countries start looking elsewhere. If we believe the SU-35 is the penultimate Flanker, we're already there. An F/C-31 that's stealthy but has pedestrian like performance is still stealth, and because of that likely more capable than any 4++ gen jet.

They have to make this work. Or at least try to...
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milosh

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Unread post05 Sep 2020, 15:16

mixelflick wrote:In the next 10 years or so, many Russian client states Flankers and Fulcrums will be out of airframe life. Most of the Fulcrums already are. Yet in neither case does Russia have a true successor. It sure isn't going to be the SU-57, so their solution is..... keep updating the Flanker series? That can only continue for so long before countries start looking elsewhere. If we believe the SU-35 is the penultimate Flanker, we're already there. An F/C-31 that's stealthy but has pedestrian like performance is still stealth, and because of that likely more capable than any 4++ gen jet.

They have to make this work. Or at least try to...


Flanker market is mostly non friendly to PRC espeacilly now with South China Sea conflict:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rators.png

So they will not stand in line to buy FC-31.

Fulcrum market is joke, biggest buyer is India (new and upgrades) which surely will not buy FC-31.

FC-31 as see is Chinese competitor to F-35 in markets where China have leverage. How many oil US import from Saudis? And how many oil China?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Sep 2020, 03:37

gta4 wrote:Believe or not, this jet is severely overweighted. I have reliable source claiming this jet is 2 tons heavier than F-35A



You have a reliable source on the true weight of the J-31. Plus, the thrust of the engine it will use.... :|
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Sep 2020, 03:43

jessmo112 wrote:
We have been through tbis discussion before. The plane was built to mimic the F-35 but they don't have an engine that can give it F-35 performance.
Heck! Even the F-35 itself was over weight!
Its one thing to try and convince us this is a good copy of the F-35 its another thing to convince us that it overcame the originals design issues simply because CHINA stonq.
Empty spaces are heavy



I have never tried to convince anyone that the J-31 is better than the F-35. Yet, that doesn't mean it can't be competitive is some respects. While, still being more than a match for older 4/4.5 Generation Fighters.

In addition if the F-35 is soooo over weight. Then why does it have such exceptional performance??? :wink:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Sep 2020, 03:48

mixelflick wrote:
I'm assuming you mean China itself. And I agree, it would make more sense to do so, at least if they can't overcome the F/C-31's design challenges. But buying more J-20's is also the problem... If I'm not mistaken, it has a "no export" mandate in the same way the F-22 does. Even if they open it up to foreign buyers, it's not going to be cheap and likely way overkill for most countries.

No, the F/C-31 (or something like it) has to happen. If they gave up, it would be a huge mistake. Why? Because by pursuing the SU-57 the Russians have more or less handed China the export market. Countries that can't get the F-35 but want at least a rudimentary stealth capability will give it a good, hard look.

In the next 10 years or so, many Russian client states Flankers and Fulcrums will be out of airframe life. Most of the Fulcrums already are. Yet in neither case does Russia have a true successor. It sure isn't going to be the SU-57, so their solution is..... keep updating the Flanker series? That can only continue for so long before countries start looking elsewhere. If we believe the SU-35 is the penultimate Flanker, we're already there. An F/C-31 that's stealthy but has pedestrian like performance is still stealth, and because of that likely more capable than any 4++ gen jet.

They have to make this work. Or at least try to...


China needs to produce the J-31 in numbers. In order to make it afford for both domestic and export markets.

Honestly, I would expect to see versions for the PLAAF, PLAN, and Export.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Sep 2020, 05:34

Recent pictures of the latest J-31. (31003)


FC31A1.jpg





FC31A.jpg
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weasel1962

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Unread post08 Sep 2020, 06:57

Good to know "recent" means 4+ months which is the cycle time it took for the cropped ps-ed "photo" to go from weibo thru twitter to f-16.net.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Sep 2020, 07:16

Considering how hard it is to get anything on the J-31/FC-31. I think it qualifies......
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