What is going on with the SU-57?

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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vilters

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Unread post19 Jun 2019, 22:29

Please tell me, I want to know.

Why on planet earth would Russia fire missiles to the USA?

Why?
Just give me ONE good reason.
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botsing

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 23:07

milosh wrote:Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable.

Some homework for you: Lookup the amount of power generators in the USA.

On average for each of those power generators you would need multiple missiles to take them offline, you will need even more missiles to make sure you take them out permanently.

Now a few questions:
1. How much does it cost to make that many missiles?
2. How much does it cost to keep those missiles operational?
3. By what logistics would those missiles will be delivered?
4. By what mechanism are those missiles hidden before they perform a mass strike?
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milosh

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 07:00

botsing wrote:
milosh wrote:Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable.

Some homework for you: Lookup the amount of power generators in the USA.

On average for each of those power generators you would need multiple missiles to take them offline, you will need even more missiles to make sure you take them out permanently.

Now a few questions:
1. How much does it cost to make that many missiles?
2. How much does it cost to keep those missiles operational?
3. By what logistics would those missiles will be delivered?
4. By what mechanism are those missiles hidden before they perform a mass strike?


Not small number of missiles but don't forget you don't need to destroy generators to cut of electricity. But bigger problem would be oil refineries, they are really soft targets. One cluster warhead cut create chaos on oil refinery.

Btw I am happy because Russians finally are moving from "nuke em'all" plan and I would be very happy to see more new cruise missiles with conventional warhead replacing nuclear ones.

@all

I didn't say Russia will attack USA, I said they developing advanced conventional weapons. Also I really doubt USA will attack Russia even if US fighters are lot better, it is just one part of war machine, as in some french comic strip from 1980s two soviet officers are drink in Paris and talking, one of them say "too bad we lost air war"

I think we need to return to Su-57.

My opionion about this order, it will not have good frontal RCS, I doubt they will have thick RAM. I doubt 117 engine have radar blocker so RAM would be waste of money if engine face isn't hidden.

Is bad thing to buy such Su-57? Of course not. It is real super cruiser (Su-35 isn't when it carry six missiles), real 3D TVC, new sensors and networking capability, and it is much smaller target then Su-35. For home defense more then enough. For offensive not so good but still lot better then Flankers.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 07:12

The initial Su-57 will have a derivative of the Su-35 engine which has RAM. It's still not going to be ideal from a RCS pov but it's better than nothing and Su-57 will probably only shine at angles away from its engine face.
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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 17:48

The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 18:47

Don't forget Su-57 will be the first Russian fighter with an AESA which will help its stealth. It is more advanced than the Su-35 and its local price is in the same ballpark. It has the latest Russian sensors in everything.
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milosh

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 21:23

mixelflick wrote:The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.


Su-35 RCS reduction is no where near Su-57, so no comparison there. For example AIM-120 or any similar missile will locked armed Su-35 from +30km. Su-57 (if use 0.5m2 for Su-57 v0.5 which they are buying) from less then 10km and that without heavy jamming. Jamming favor Su-57 lot more then Su-35.

Cruise speed? While Su-35 can super cruise it is probable lightly armed, Su-57 can to that with heavy weapon load, four big missile/bombs in weapon bay and two smaller missiles in pods.

Sensors? Su-57 have three OLS (one normal and two smaller ones), six UV sensors and three aesa antennas in nose (similar setup as was planed for F-22 but was axed), plus it have radar or jammer in tail sting.
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falcon.16

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 23:13

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.


Su-35 RCS reduction is no where near Su-57, so no comparison there. For example AIM-120 or any similar missile will locked armed Su-35 from +30km. Su-57 (if use 0.5m2 for Su-57 v0.5 which they are buying) from less then 10km and that without heavy jamming. Jamming favor Su-57 lot more then Su-35.

Cruise speed? While Su-35 can super cruise it is probable lightly armed, Su-57 can to that with heavy weapon load, four big missile/bombs in weapon bay and two smaller missiles in pods.

Sensors? Su-57 have three OLS (one normal and two smaller ones), six UV sensors and three aesa antennas in nose (similar setup as was planed for F-22 but was axed), plus it have radar or jammer in tail sting.


3 OLS?

OLS-50 is only 1 unit. Which are the other 2 sensors?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 23:18

Here is the list
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6Le1Sip[1].jpg
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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falcon.16

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 23:34

Only I can see 1 Irst. The other 2 balls are DIRCM, and it is not an irst. :roll:
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milosh

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Unread post22 Jun 2019, 08:53

Some sources mentioned IR sensor as part of 101KS-O and that would only logical because officially it have 360 deg IR coverage but 101KS-V is UV so only other option is 101KS-O.
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