What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2019, 14:35
by mixelflick
Not that long ago, we heard "no mass production" from the Russians. Limited order, around 12 birds total by the year 2025 or so. Now, we hear "mass production is ready to go", 76 planes on order for the Mother land..

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... n-of-su-57

What gives? I really doubt the new engine is ready. Instead, I think they've either lined up foreign customers or decided that the SU-57 is necessary - and fast. Could it be the F-35 has finally impressed them? Or is it just Putin using his sway after taking a personal interest in the aircraft? Whatever is going on, its vexing. This on again/off again thing they have going with the SU-57 is bizarre. They're usually a lot more methodical about things.

Rumblings too the super-carrier is back on. Like I said, bizarre..

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2019, 22:53
by citanon
They are trying to save their fighter industry. As things stand the Su-57 would have trouble against a Super Hornet much less an F-35.

Every simulation we've ever seen of the Su-57's stealth signature is BS because they are all hypothesizing an ideal seemless and smooth skin. LO signature management can be ruined by small manufacturing defects and design details. Until the Russians get that sorted out and develop fieldable RAM coatings those jets may not even be LO not to mention VLO.

The Russians have probably decided to screw stealth and just get something into the field. If they do not keep up the fiction of a viable 5th gen option the Chinese will eat their lunch in the export market with the FC-31.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 02:50
by madrat
The Su-57 has plenty of features not found on Su-35S ans Su-30SM that make both dispensable.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 09:34
by charlielima223
So either the PAKFA is a fully operational now and has final production versions of everything they wanted... in which case I will need one of these to believe that
Image

or
they said "F**k it comrades... lets just mass produce the damn thing already regardless of how far along we are now"

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 10:04
by milosh
Price is key reason. Sukhoi probable have zero profit from this domestic order.

I think those 76 will go to interceptor force because they don't have stealthy nozzles so its side and rear RCS would be noticable bigger then Su-57 with next gen engine which have stealthy nozzles.

MiG-31 fleet in 2020s would be lot smaller. They need to replace ~100 retired MiG-31. Much smaller Su-57 which is super cruiser and carry similar weapon load is ideal for that, plus they will have easier logistics because 117 engine share parts with 117S which replacing AL-31 in RuAF.

So geting Su-57 v0.5 isn't so strange decision.

@mixelflick

What super carrier?!? Last time, construction bureau proposed +40.000 tons carrier, interesting design but definitely not super carrier:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... esign.html

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 14:34
by mixelflick
100,000 ton super-carrier mentioned in this piece...

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... percarrier

For the record, I think the 40,000 ton twin hull design is a lot more practical. Plus, one super carrier doesn't buy them much. Will probably be in port more than it is to sea, and the cost relative to capability it brings is probably marginal. A ship borne SU-57 is probably going to need a super carrier to truly be effective,with cats/traps etc..

That's a tall, tall order for a country never fielding those capabilities before. Just my 2 cents..

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 15:10
by mixelflick
citanon wrote:They are trying to save their fighter industry. As things stand the Su-57 would have trouble against a Super Hornet much less an F-35.

Every simulation we've ever seen of the Su-57's stealth signature is BS because they are all hypothesizing an ideal seemless and smooth skin. LO signature management can be ruined by small manufacturing defects and design details. Until the Russians get that sorted out and develop fieldable RAM coatings those jets may not even be LO not to mention VLO.

The Russians have probably decided to screw stealth and just get something into the field. If they do not keep up the fiction of a viable 5th gen option the Chinese will eat their lunch in the export market with the FC-31.


I tend to think this explanation the most plausible.

Staying competitive with the Chinese is going to be important. Perhaps even moreso than adding to her own capabilities/air superiority fleet. If foreign orders dry up and China isn't buying their equipment anymore, only India can save them. And there's some indication they could be ordering from the west some day. It's already started with Rafale. And I'm not sure up-rated Flankers are going to cut it. Besides, China already has them/the SU-35 and even more capable indigenous versions (J-16).

The big question is, will foreign nations be willing to sacrifice stealth? Can India afford to? Not with Chinese stealth birds flooding the market. Even a somewhat reduced signature F/C-31 is going to be a handful in Pakistani colors. The Russians desperately need a truly low signature fighter in the game, and the SU-57 is going to have to be it.

Even without stealth though, it will represent a new and formidable challenge.Way more capable than F-15's, 16's and 18's, Rafale's and Typhoons IMO. The only problem is, many more nations will by then be flying the F-35..

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 15:51
by milosh
Chinese didn't sold anything to anyone expect J-7 in last couple of decades. No one bought J-10 nor J-11. Maybe they will sell JF-17 to someone. I don't count Pakistan they were partner.

And I really find funny when citation say Russians don't know to make RAM :D

When Russians visited our aircraft museum folks there ask them why they don't take parts of F-117 as Chinese did. Answer was simple "it is old tech compare to what we are working" so even though Russians didn't field stealth in past don't think they don't have clue about RAM, Tu-160 is probable first their plane where they apply RAM (some sources say it is Tu-22M3), intakes are threaded with graphite RAM and there are some sources (interview with constructor) which mentioned airframe have RAM coatings.

And if you don't like what Russians say you can googled CIA report from 1980s where CIA say lot more scientists and engineers works on RAM development in USSR then in USA.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 15:56
by vilters
Lets see, 76 airframes you write?

During normal operations, phase inspections, preventive and corrective maintenance, modifications, and the lot you suffer with a "new" airframe, that gives them an operational fleet of about 30 aircraft including taxes.

Well, that's about good enough to equip a single base.

Nothing to see here, move on.
Pure national promotion to keep the industry going.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 15:59
by vilters
Oh, and better then F-15, F-16, F-18?

Yep ; With the Russian guarantee and a healthy dose of salt, pepper, mayonaise and ketchup.... to fill the gaps.

When an F-16 comes on UHF and calls : "Boe", they flee like spiders in all possible directions. :devil:

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 16:08
by milosh
vilters wrote:Lets see, 76 airframes you write?

During normal operations, phase inspections, preventive and corrective maintenance, modifications, and the lot you suffer with a "new" airframe, that gives them an operational fleet of about 30 aircraft including taxes.

Well, that's about good enough to equip a single base.

Nothing to see here, move on.
Pure national promotion to keep the industry going.


Russia is planing to have ~800 fighters, I mean they don't have 76 Su-35, so buying 76 Su-57 isn't small number for Russia.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 19:25
by knowan
A catamaran carrier is an awful idea, because their stability is worse in rough seas. Only a nation with such terribly limited experience at carrier operations could come up with such an idea.

As for RAM, I haven't seen any photos of the Su-57 with a RAM coating yet. That suggests Russia is either having difficulty developing a coating, or the stealth of the design is so terrible RAM won't help enough to be worth the expense.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2019, 19:51
by citanon
It's one thing to have RAM working in a laboratory. It's quite another to have a RAM coating with the material properties suitable for coating over massive areas on the surface of a fighter, and have that be consistently manufacturable, and have that be maintainable in the field, and have that at low enough cost, and to have the manufacturing process developed for it's deployment and the maintenance process developed for it's upkeep.

In materials science it's not the "can" that kills you it's the "and". Even having a piece of the material in hand doesn't get you so far with those "ands".

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2019, 01:12
by Corsair1963
Much of what comes out of Russia in regards to future Weapons Programs. Is just Smoke and Mirrors....

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2019, 09:20
by milosh
knowan wrote:A catamaran carrier is an awful idea, because their stability is worse in rough seas. Only a nation with such terribly limited experience at carrier operations could come up with such an idea.


It is semi catamaran it have classic bow only stern is catamaran:
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blog ... rrier.html

Disadvantage is smaller hangar.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2019, 13:35
by mixelflick
milosh wrote:Chinese didn't sold anything to anyone expect J-7 in last couple of decades. No one bought J-10 nor J-11. Maybe they will sell JF-17 to someone. I don't count Pakistan they were partner.

And I really find funny when citation say Russians don't know to make RAM :D

When Russians visited our aircraft museum folks there ask them why they don't take parts of F-117 as Chinese did. Answer was simple "it is old tech compare to what we are working" so even though Russians didn't field stealth in past don't think they don't have clue about RAM, Tu-160 is probable first their plane where they apply RAM (some sources say it is Tu-22M3), intakes are threaded with graphite RAM and there are some sources (interview with constructor) which mentioned airframe have RAM coatings.

And if you don't like what Russians say you can googled CIA report from 1980s where CIA say lot more scientists and engineers works on RAM development in USSR then in USA.


So there will be RAM on the SU=57 then?

Where might I ask? And is it going to cover the entire airframe, or just the forward facing parts? I'm legitimately asking these questions, because from what I've seen - it looks like a regular aluminum airframe. Some composites in some areas, but otherwise unremarkable looking. Certainly not with the finish of an F-22 or F-35 where each appears with a very different/peculiar finish vs. our legacy birds..

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2019, 19:23
by knowan
milosh wrote:
knowan wrote:A catamaran carrier is an awful idea, because their stability is worse in rough seas. Only a nation with such terribly limited experience at carrier operations could come up with such an idea.


It is semi catamaran it have classic bow only stern is catamaran:
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blog ... rrier.html

Disadvantage is smaller hangar.


It will still be less stable in rough seas and bury the bow into waves more than a monohull design.

The only way to negate that disadvantage of a catamaran is by using a SWAFT hull type, but those have their own significant disadvantages, such as requiring far more power to achieve the same speeds as an equivalent monohull design.

Seakeeping is a critical design criteria for an aircraft carrier, as it is one of the largest determining factors in their ability to conduct combat operations, so any aircraft carrier design that sacrifices seakeeping is militarily unsound.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 08:45
by milosh
mixelflick wrote:Where might I ask? And is it going to cover the entire airframe, or just the forward facing parts? I'm legitimately asking these questions, because from what I've seen - it looks like a regular aluminum airframe. Some composites in some areas, but otherwise unremarkable looking. Certainly not with the finish of an F-22 or F-35 where each appears with a very different/peculiar finish vs. our legacy birds..


:shock:

https://www.mycity-military.com/imgs4/1 ... AMqeMT.jpg

ПКМ is composite. Aircraft skin isn't aluminium it is composite. You can clearly see it on assembly photos.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 10:07
by vilters
Ach, those Ruskies. They are still scratching behind their ears. . . .

Do these western airframes have no room inside?
Why otherwise would you put the Random Access Memory on the outside? ? ? ? :bang:
Or does RAM not mean RAM but RAM. :bang: :devil: :bang:

This time I am completely lost.
They know the thing sucks, but still continue with it.
Tja, they have to or lose face completely.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 10:44
by rkap
Nothing changes on F16. The so called Experts and the Amateurs
all stuck in the past or there present in the way they think.
The SU57 for instance.
Russia told us years ago the SU57 had become less of a Priroty.
They saw no immediate need for it. They considered the SU35 all they really needed at present. No need to pour money into the SU57 and try to rush it into production.
They had higher priorities. They did not tell us what those priorities were.
Gradually but surely there priorities and strategy has become clear.
They were concentrating on:
1) Ensuring there Nuke Deterrent remained viable once Gerorge Junior broke the ABM Treaty. They succeeded. The US ABM system is still very primitive in reality but now they have perfected there Hypersinic Glide Vehicle delivery system the USA has to go back to the drawing board. The first Missile with there Avanguard delivery vehicle already deployed. Problem solved. From now on they simply replace ICBMs with the new Delivery system as older ones are replaced. Putin is probably correct when he says MAD is now assured for at least 40 years. They have other projects in the Nuke Deterrent are also nearing completion. There Nuke powered big Torpedo.
2) Air Defences. They have now I understand about 50 Batallions of S400 deployed plus about 150 Battalions of upgraded S300 deployed. Who wants more? Could 100 x SU57 do a better job? There first S500 now being extensively trialled and no doubt refined.
3) There new Hypersonic Air Launched Missile in initial Production. There Kalibre now in Production. About 1,000 per year is there goal. Could a SU57 launch there Hypersonic better than there Mig31 or modified TU22M3 Bombers? No! With the range of there Hypersonic Missile Stealth is irrelevant.


Would the SU57 have helped them in Syria? No! Useless!
If the USA had decided to throw there Muscle around in Syria I assume they simply would have deployed more Battalions of S400/300 and used them in the way they are meant to be used. Constantly moving, hidden, dispersed, false emitters, dummy S400/300 blow ups etc. with there mobile Medium Range SAMs and close in protection systems.
Would 100 x SU57s or 100 x F35s be a better Deterrent against NATO interfering than say 5 Battalions of S400 and 5 Battalions of updated S300s deployed? No!

In my mind they have achieved there goals "there way" and done it very cost effectively.
There Military spending in real terms has been maintained but as a % of GDP it is reducing and as a percent of there Federal Budget is also decreasing.

They were being genuine when they said they saw no great need for the SU57.
Thats Russians by Culture. Very straight. That includes there Politicians. Very few like Pompous!
If in the unlikely event they do want to Project Power which always has to involve Ground Troops to be effective there SAMs again are far better than Aircraft to protect advancing Troops. Simply have S400/300 etc. following up the Troops providing 24x7 Air Cover.
Use Ground Attack Aircraft and Tanks, and Missiles as part of the Assault but do they need SU57s to do that? No! To a big degree they don't even need them to fly Cover for the Ground attack Aircraft. The SAMs provide most of the cover.

They have spent there money well. Add to the above there new Nuke powered Cruise Missile they hope to have proven up by 2021/22 and it is obvious they made the correct decision.
All there new Weapons now in production or going into production are far more important than having a few Squadrons of SU57 in service or lots of T14 tanks. Another project that has fallen behind its initial schedule. They are well ahead in many other areas though nobody dreamed they would be 5 years ago.

They legitimately can now claim in many areas for at least a decade "I have a bigger dick than you."
That is what counts.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 14:06
by botsing
Yeah, Russia cannot fight a conventional war anymore with their outdated equipment.

Relapsing to nuclear weapons delivered by hypersonic wunderwaffens and mass propaganda is the only option left.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 16:44
by knowan
botsing wrote:Yeah, Russia cannot fight a conventional war anymore with their outdated equipment.

Relapsing to nuclear weapons delivered by hypersonic wunderwaffens and mass propaganda is the only option left.


The entire reason Russia mentions its nuclear weapons all the time is because of how insecure they are in everything else.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 19:22
by vilters
Long time ago, Russia was a great force with a powerful mouth.
The mouth is all what is left. Oh, don't forget the gallons of Wodka.
Gas and Wodka is all what's left.

What are they thinking?
As soon as they power up a defence system, we see it, and an F-35 or Tomahawk will take it out before they can breath a second time.

We will have air dominance within the first week, and can fly around in our pyjama's in anything we want from the second week onwards.

They can flee, hide, or burry whatever they have under tons of sand as all others have done before them.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2019, 23:57
by citanon
They are thinking we better make the most of our nukes.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 16:31
by milosh
botsing wrote:Yeah, Russia cannot fight a conventional war anymore with their outdated equipment.

Relapsing to nuclear weapons delivered by hypersonic wunderwaffens and mass propaganda is the only option left.


Well new Russian conventional weapons are problem for USA:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -homeland/

I don't think USSR ever had similar capability.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 16:50
by botsing
milosh wrote:Well new Russian conventional weapons are problem for USA:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -homeland/

I don't think USSR ever had similar capability.

Oh right, you only need a handful of very expensive conventional missiles to win a full conventional war.

What do you think will happen to Russia when they use this on USA targets?

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 18:44
by milosh
botsing wrote:
milosh wrote:Well new Russian conventional weapons are problem for USA:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -homeland/

I don't think USSR ever had similar capability.

Oh right, you only need a handful of very expensive conventional missiles to win a full conventional war.

What do you think will happen to Russia when they use this on USA targets?


Maybe something similar but nothing knew to Russians.

Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable. Something like that in cold war wasn't possible without nukes.

No wonder NORAD commander see that as huge danger.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 19:40
by wrightwing
milosh wrote:
botsing wrote:
milosh wrote:Well new Russian conventional weapons are problem for USA:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -homeland/

I don't think USSR ever had similar capability.

Oh right, you only need a handful of very expensive conventional missiles to win a full conventional war.

What do you think will happen to Russia when they use this on USA targets?


Maybe something similar but nothing knew to Russians.

Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable. Something like that in cold war wasn't possible without nukes, and now Russians can to that using conventional weapons. So no need for nukes to knock down US society.

No wonder NORAD commander see that as huge danger.

It'd take more than a handful of missiles.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 20:02
by knowan
USA has had that capability since the 1980s. Russians should be proud their country is finally catching up to 40 year old tech!

Aside from that, Russia has the problem of delivery platforms, due to the USA being in a much more isolated position than Russia.
To achieve strategic effects with conventional cruise missiles requires thousands and thousands of missiles, and Russia simply doesn't have the capability of carrying that many missiles at once on their submarines and long-range bombers.
It would take numerous sorties to achieve it, by which time the USA is retaliating with its own conventional capabilities.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 20:13
by milosh
knowan wrote:USA has had that capability since the 1980s. Russians should be proud at finally catching up!


Maybe but it is pointless now, we talk about conventional vs nuclear option today not 1980s.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 22:29
by vilters
Please tell me, I want to know.

Why on planet earth would Russia fire missiles to the USA?

Why?
Just give me ONE good reason.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2019, 23:07
by botsing
milosh wrote:Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable.

Some homework for you: Lookup the amount of power generators in the USA.

On average for each of those power generators you would need multiple missiles to take them offline, you will need even more missiles to make sure you take them out permanently.

Now a few questions:
1. How much does it cost to make that many missiles?
2. How much does it cost to keep those missiles operational?
3. By what logistics would those missiles will be delivered?
4. By what mechanism are those missiles hidden before they perform a mass strike?

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 07:00
by milosh
botsing wrote:
milosh wrote:Wipe out electric network and oil refineries in America and you have unthinkable.

Some homework for you: Lookup the amount of power generators in the USA.

On average for each of those power generators you would need multiple missiles to take them offline, you will need even more missiles to make sure you take them out permanently.

Now a few questions:
1. How much does it cost to make that many missiles?
2. How much does it cost to keep those missiles operational?
3. By what logistics would those missiles will be delivered?
4. By what mechanism are those missiles hidden before they perform a mass strike?


Not small number of missiles but don't forget you don't need to destroy generators to cut of electricity. But bigger problem would be oil refineries, they are really soft targets. One cluster warhead cut create chaos on oil refinery.

Btw I am happy because Russians finally are moving from "nuke em'all" plan and I would be very happy to see more new cruise missiles with conventional warhead replacing nuclear ones.

@all

I didn't say Russia will attack USA, I said they developing advanced conventional weapons. Also I really doubt USA will attack Russia even if US fighters are lot better, it is just one part of war machine, as in some french comic strip from 1980s two soviet officers are drink in Paris and talking, one of them say "too bad we lost air war"

I think we need to return to Su-57.

My opionion about this order, it will not have good frontal RCS, I doubt they will have thick RAM. I doubt 117 engine have radar blocker so RAM would be waste of money if engine face isn't hidden.

Is bad thing to buy such Su-57? Of course not. It is real super cruiser (Su-35 isn't when it carry six missiles), real 3D TVC, new sensors and networking capability, and it is much smaller target then Su-35. For home defense more then enough. For offensive not so good but still lot better then Flankers.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 07:12
by marsavian
The initial Su-57 will have a derivative of the Su-35 engine which has RAM. It's still not going to be ideal from a RCS pov but it's better than nothing and Su-57 will probably only shine at angles away from its engine face.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 17:48
by mixelflick
The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 18:47
by marsavian
Don't forget Su-57 will be the first Russian fighter with an AESA which will help its stealth. It is more advanced than the Su-35 and its local price is in the same ballpark. It has the latest Russian sensors in everything.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 21:23
by milosh
mixelflick wrote:The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.


Su-35 RCS reduction is no where near Su-57, so no comparison there. For example AIM-120 or any similar missile will locked armed Su-35 from +30km. Su-57 (if use 0.5m2 for Su-57 v0.5 which they are buying) from less then 10km and that without heavy jamming. Jamming favor Su-57 lot more then Su-35.

Cruise speed? While Su-35 can super cruise it is probable lightly armed, Su-57 can to that with heavy weapon load, four big missile/bombs in weapon bay and two smaller missiles in pods.

Sensors? Su-57 have three OLS (one normal and two smaller ones), six UV sensors and three aesa antennas in nose (similar setup as was planed for F-22 but was axed), plus it have radar or jammer in tail sting.

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 23:13
by falcon.16
milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:The real question is this: Will the SU-57 give them a meaningful jump in capabilities vs. the SU-35? And related, if so - at what cost?

Not so long ago, we were told the SU-35 was "enough" to deal with the F-22, F-35, F-18 and F-15s. That $ would be better invested in building more SU-35's, perhaps eventually with AESA radars and ultra-long range missiles. And they claim it's had RCS reduction measures built in.

They either now realize that was a mistake, OR these 76 are being manufactured to keep ole' Vlad happy. To be totally honest, I think it's a combination of the two - but more of the latter. He really seems to dote on the SU-57, almost as if its his mistress. Outside of the Shah and his love for the F-14, I can't recall an individual + aircraft love fest like Vlad has for this bird.


Su-35 RCS reduction is no where near Su-57, so no comparison there. For example AIM-120 or any similar missile will locked armed Su-35 from +30km. Su-57 (if use 0.5m2 for Su-57 v0.5 which they are buying) from less then 10km and that without heavy jamming. Jamming favor Su-57 lot more then Su-35.

Cruise speed? While Su-35 can super cruise it is probable lightly armed, Su-57 can to that with heavy weapon load, four big missile/bombs in weapon bay and two smaller missiles in pods.

Sensors? Su-57 have three OLS (one normal and two smaller ones), six UV sensors and three aesa antennas in nose (similar setup as was planed for F-22 but was axed), plus it have radar or jammer in tail sting.


3 OLS?

OLS-50 is only 1 unit. Which are the other 2 sensors?

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 23:18
by SpudmanWP
Here is the list

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 23:34
by falcon.16
Only I can see 1 Irst. The other 2 balls are DIRCM, and it is not an irst. :roll:

Re: What is going on with the SU-57?

Unread postPosted: 22 Jun 2019, 08:53
by milosh
Some sources mentioned IR sensor as part of 101KS-O and that would only logical because officially it have 360 deg IR coverage but 101KS-V is UV so only other option is 101KS-O.