Russian SU-30's getting SU-35 upgrade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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madrat

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Unread post28 Mar 2019, 02:11

swiss wrote:Are you sure you mean the SM? The Su-30 Sm had her maiden flight in September 2012. So there can't be en enhancement since 2011. And if the N011M-R is so superior, there would be no need to upgrade the Radar from the SM to a Su-35 level. According to the manufacturer its a bit better then the N011M. But still far away from the irbis-E.


The Su-30SM is less sensitive, but with a dedicated guy to operate the radar there is quite a lot more potential to manually filter traffic. The Su-35S requires automated filtering, which requires the pilots attention to adjust. Let's not forget that the Su-35S has more electrical power available, but it has the downside of less ability to dissipate thermal heat. China worked extensively with the Russians on the filtering methods they learned through reverse-engineering of western technology acquisitions, so the radar technology in the two man fighters is going to be superior. Su-35S has significant advantages in engines, but without the second man I do not believe the radar is vastly superior unless you have a very target deficient environment with easy to sort targets. So in 1v1 the Su-35S probably is superior due to its raw edge in power, but in 4v4 I'd bank on Su-30SM if both sides have effective training.
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mixelflick

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Unread post28 Mar 2019, 14:03

firebase99 wrote:
fbw wrote:
Best I can tell, they have around 150 each of SU-30SM, SU-35 and the SU-34.


124 Su-34, 114 Su-30SM (VVS & Naval units), 78 Su-35S as of roughly the end of 2018. Most surprising is the production rate of the Su-35S ~12 per year, little higher lately with deliveries to China.


No Mig-35?


Not yet. I read somewhere where 24 were on order.

But these numbers are surprising: Only around 192 SU-30SM/SU-35's? I would think for a country the size of Russia, they'd need far more. I'm sure they have some SU-27's and Mig-29's too, but they have to be dwindling. We have around, what... 350 F-22/F-35's right now? So we have more 5th gen platforms alone vs. their "modern" fighter fleet, nevermind the 400 or so F-15C's/E's, 900 F-16's and 400 or so Super Hornets.

I didn't realize the gap was this big.

Putin is doing what he can though, to keep Russia competitive. So he built a Super Flanker and updating the SU-30's to the same standard. SU-57 is on ice and other than the Mig-31, their fighter/interceptor fleet looks pretty anemic. I realize his strategic/tactical nukes are his backstop, but damn - I'd be worried about China, not the US.

Their J-10B/C force alone would give them fits. And now with the J-20, they're poised to make a quantum leap over Russia in airpower. Throw in their formidable J-16 and new ramjet powered AAM's, and that's one menacing neighbor.
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swiss

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Unread post28 Mar 2019, 16:44

madrat wrote:
The Su-30SM is less sensitive, but with a dedicated guy to operate the radar there is quite a lot more potential to manually filter traffic. The Su-35S requires automated filtering, which requires the pilots attention to adjust. Let's not forget that the Su-35S has more electrical power available, but it has the downside of less ability to dissipate thermal heat. China worked extensively with the Russians on the filtering methods they learned through reverse-engineering of western technology acquisitions, so the radar technology in the two man fighters is going to be superior. Su-35S has significant advantages in engines, but without the second man I do not believe the radar is vastly superior unless you have a very target deficient environment with easy to sort targets. So in 1v1 the Su-35S probably is superior due to its raw edge in power, but in 4v4 I'd bank on Su-30SM if both sides have effective training.


Interesting Point. Do you have you some sources for this claim. Would be interesting.

First batch of 6 "Mig-35", or better Mig-29m should be delivered this year.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... draw-close
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milosh

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Unread post29 Mar 2019, 06:33

mixelflick wrote:They are similar sized, but the SU-35 carries over 5,000lbs more fuel and larger/more capable by several important measures. This capability comes with a higher price tag, at least according to Wiki..

SU-30: 37.5 Million
SU-35: 65 Million


Su-30 is two seater so you need space for second crew member, space which would be used for fuel. Su-35 don't have airbrake instead fuel tank is extended and have wet V-stabs so no wonder it carries lot more fuel.

If you look weight there is noticeable difference, Su-35 is in 17ton class, Su-30 iz 19ton class. More weight mean more material and more work hours in making plane.

Price you posted aren't right, Su-35 price for Russia is lot lower then 60 million and modern export price for Su-30 is higher then 40 million. You need to check how much Russia pay for each.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Mar 2019, 12:41

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:They are similar sized, but the SU-35 carries over 5,000lbs more fuel and larger/more capable by several important measures. This capability comes with a higher price tag, at least according to Wiki..

SU-30: 37.5 Million
SU-35: 65 Million


Su-30 is two seater so you need space for second crew member, space which would be used for fuel. Su-35 don't have airbrake instead fuel tank is extended and have wet V-stabs so no wonder it carries lot more fuel.

If you look weight there is noticeable difference, Su-35 is in 17ton class, Su-30 iz 19ton class. More weight mean more material and more work hours in making plane.

Price you posted aren't right, Su-35 price for Russia is lot lower then 60 million and modern export price for Su-30 is higher then 40 million. You need to check how much Russia

Where would you suggest I check? I took my figures from Wiki...
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milosh

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Unread post29 Mar 2019, 14:39

mixelflick wrote:Where would you suggest I check? I took my figures from Wiki...


Russian net and sources. For example Su-35 price in rubles was +30 million dollars, last order I think.
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