F-15X as an interceptor

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 18:04

marsavian wrote:Cool and with the centerline tank another 50-60 nm ?

without checking, I would be comfortable saying another 100nm of radius for this loadout under discussion.
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swiss

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 20:52

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:With a standard 8AAM loadout, two wing tanks, and CFTs I see 876nm right now accounting for climb, descent, and actual reserve requirement.


Thanks spurts. Is it possible to say with a 16 AAM loadout and CFT?

What was the combat radius for a F-35 with 4 AAM? Roughly 700 nm?
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 21:09

From a few pages ago...

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Another thing to keep in mind is that the increased missile load of the F-15X is a "selling point" but putting quad racks on the inner wing pylons means you cannot use the drop tanks on the wings. In the "16 AAM" load, four on the CFT, quad racks under each inner wing hardpoint and dual rack under the outer harpoint, That only leave the CFTs and Centerline drops. This configuration has a TO weight of 72,000+lb and a DI of 100+ with a fuel fraction of .34 but an specific range of ~0.05nm/lb. By the time you burn off 80% of the fuel and are down to 53,000+lb the specific range is 0.065nm/lb. The quick and dirty math there shows 1,090nm range, or 545nm radius. Granted this does now accound for climb or a cruise descent, but as a rough estimate it gets you to the ballpark. A Block4+ F-35 will carry up to 16 AAMs as well, but it may or may not make the range calculated here for the F-15X.
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swiss

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 21:23

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:From a few pages ago...

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Another thing to keep in mind is that the increased missile load of the F-15X is a "selling point" but putting quad racks on the inner wing pylons means you cannot use the drop tanks on the wings. In the "16 AAM" load, four on the CFT, quad racks under each inner wing hardpoint and dual rack under the outer harpoint, That only leave the CFTs and Centerline drops. This configuration has a TO weight of 72,000+lb and a DI of 100+ with a fuel fraction of .34 but an specific range of ~0.05nm/lb. By the time you burn off 80% of the fuel and are down to 53,000+lb the specific range is 0.065nm/lb. The quick and dirty math there shows 1,090nm range, or 545nm radius. Granted this does now accound for climb or a cruise descent, but as a rough estimate it gets you to the ballpark. A Block4+ F-35 will carry up to 16 AAMs as well, but it may or may not make the range calculated here for the F-15X.



Sorry I missed that. :oops: Always appreciate your work
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 21:33

I just wished I would spell check. I am terrible at typing.
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marauder2048

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:03

Given that absolute max radius for that configuration is 600 nautical miles @ Mach 0.75
which assumes absolutely no combat fuel rates and/or maneuvering of any kind,
I'm not sure you've described a useful interceptor configuration.

At that cruise speed, you'd be better off dropping AIM-120s out of a B-1B or a C-17.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:21

So i saw a link that stated the air forces over all goal was 144 F-15EX over the next 10-15 years, at 80 mill each, that's 11.5 billion 2018 dollars. What was the cost estimate for reopening F-22 production 5-7 billion? SO we could reopen F-22 production and prob build 50-100(hopefully more) improved F-22's in the same cost bracket as the F-15X. I still agree with others idea of take a hit on raw air dominance (only have the F-22's after 2025) over the next 10 years and get PCA on a crash course and into production in the 2020's. Block 4 F-35's can fill in the gap a bit until PCA is ready.
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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:34

geforcerfx wrote:So i saw a link that stated the air forces over all goal was 144 F-15EX over the next 10-15 years, at 80 mill each, that's 11.5 billion 2018 dollars. What was the cost estimate for reopening F-22 production 5-7 billion? SO we could reopen F-22 production and prob build 50-100(hopefully more) improved F-22's in the same cost bracket as the F-15X. I still agree with others idea of take a hit on raw air dominance (only have the F-22's after 2025) over the next 10 years and get PCA on a crash course and into production in the 2020's. Block 4 F-35's can fill in the gap a bit until PCA is ready.


Our entire focus must be on pumping up F-35 Production. Until the PCA/NGAD Fighters come online......PERIOD! :bang:
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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:39

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:With a standard 8AAM loadout, two wing tanks, and CFTs I see 876nm right now accounting for climb, descent, and actual reserve requirement.



Hardly. makes a good case for the F-15EX over the F-35A in the Air to Air Role..... :?
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marsavian

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:59

Corsair1963 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:With a standard 8AAM loadout, two wing tanks, and CFTs I see 876nm right now accounting for climb, descent, and actual reserve requirement.


Hardly. makes a good case for the F-15EX over the F-35A in the Air to Air Role..... :?


More combat radius is a pretty good case especially if it tops out at 1000nm+ as Boeing claim with full tanks conformal and external. For the ANG why would they even need a stealth fighter ? Most contacts are Bears and Blackjacks and their possible offensive missiles or rogue civilian aircraft. Something as rangey and ultimately fast (when stripped down) as the F-15EX is probably better suited than the F-35 for this policing type job.
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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 01:19

marsavian wrote: For the ANG why would they even need a stealth fighter ?


Because their squadrons deploy in support of US expeditionary forces. And you don't want a
big, fuel hungry twin that can't penetrate in the fuel constrained expeditionary campaigns for
which the Air Force is planning.


marsavian wrote: Most contacts are Bears and Blackjacks and their possible offensive missiles or rogue civilian aircraft. Something as rangey and ultimately fast (when stripped down) as the F-15EX is probably better suited than the F-35 for this policing type job.


Cruise missile defense with the F-22 + AWACS involves the F-22 supercruising to a position where
it can come in beam aspect on the cruise missiles in order to give its own radar and the
active RF missiles a reasonable chance against CMs with any amount of signature reduction.

The F-15EX can't do this kinematically or safely since it would have to contend with enemy fighters
echeloned behind the cruise missile raid...or the "raid" of cheap decoys that the enemy has launched hoping to
lure out your fighters.

There are no AWACS attached to ANG units and no persistent OTH detection capability that would permit
an F-15EX to intercept a Bear or Blackjack before they could launch.

That really just leaves air policing against civilian aircraft for which an armed version of the new trainer
is a far better fit. Or the F-16s from the squadrons that convert from the F-35. Or the F-35s that aren't
FMC.
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crosshairs

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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 01:31

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:With a standard 8AAM loadout, two wing tanks, and CFTs I see 876nm right now accounting for climb, descent, and actual reserve requirement.


Hardly. makes a good case for the F-15EX over the F-35A in the Air to Air Role..... :?


More combat radius is a pretty good case especially if it tops out at 1000nm+ as Boeing claim with full tanks conformal and external. For the ANG why would they even need a stealth fighter ? Most contacts are Bears and Blackjacks and their possible offensive missiles or rogue civilian aircraft. Something as rangey and ultimately fast (when stripped down) as the F-15EX is probably better suited than the F-35 for this policing type job.


Why does the ANG need stealth fighters? For when they deploy overseas. Do you remember any skirmishes in the middle east in recent history?

Why does the ANG need stealth fighters? Because that is what the USA manufactures unless old and obsolete platforms are artificially kept in production by civilian lawmaking people.

Here is a pic of some ANG vipers returning from Iraq.

Image
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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 03:16

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:With a standard 8AAM loadout, two wing tanks, and CFTs I see 876nm right now accounting for climb, descent, and actual reserve requirement.


Hardly. makes a good case for the F-15EX over the F-35A in the Air to Air Role..... :?


More combat radius is a pretty good case especially if it tops out at 1000nm+ as Boeing claim with full tanks conformal and external. For the ANG why would they even need a stealth fighter ? Most contacts are Bears and Blackjacks and their possible offensive missiles or rogue civilian aircraft. Something as rangey and ultimately fast (when stripped down) as the F-15EX is probably better suited than the F-35 for this policing type job.



Really, how long are the New F-15EX's going to be around??? What 20-30+ years??? Yet, most of the major powers are designing and building future 5th and 6th Generation Stealth Fighters and Bombers NOW. As a matter of fact today's F-15EX wouldn't last 5 seconds vs existing F-35's or J-20's. Let alone what is coming in the next 5-10 let alone 20-30 years! (HELLO)

As for range that is basically "Ferry Range" for the F-15EX. That is full external fuel including CFT's and Tanks. Yet, the current F-35 isn't that far off even clean. Yet, if you needed more range. The F-35 could be equipped with both....
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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 03:22

Or with a loyal wingman....
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Corsair1963

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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 03:28

crosshairs wrote:
Why does the ANG need stealth fighters? For when they deploy overseas. Do you remember any skirmishes in the middle east in recent history?

Why does the ANG need stealth fighters? Because that is what the USA manufactures unless old and obsolete platforms are artificially kept in production by civilian lawmaking people.

Here is a pic of some ANG vipers returning from Iraq.



As I've said before all we need is a short-term stop gap until enough F-35's come online. The solution is obvious as it is simple. Just upgrade a modest number of F-16's to replace the F-15C's. This would be both simple and cost effective. As there are plenty of surplus F-16's available and a upgrade program on going......


It's also interesting that when you bring up the above idea. Some want to argue the F-16's aren't adequate. Yet, turn around and make the case the F-15EX is vs more F-35A's.........(LOL)
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