J-20 Weapons Load

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 06:40

The bigger issue is the reliance of the F-22 on radar-guided missiles (at least until they resolve the AIm-9/HMS but still think a longer ranged IR is useful).


The F-22 already has a long range IR missile in the 9X. The range it can achieve particularly from the F-22's optimum flight envelope is very impressive. It's already been said the F-22 can employ the 9X in ways that no other fighter in the world can.

Yes, engine tech is just one field that the US has a huge advantage over any potential adversary. The F119 in particular should garner more praises if the details of the motor were widely known. It is way underestimated and mated to the advanced aerodynamics of the F-22, is why it's known to be such a monster.

However, I won't discount the J-20. BTW, the January 2019 issue Air Forces Monthly has an article covering the Zhuhai Airshow with none other than the J-20 on the cover:

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https://airforcesmonthly.keypublishing. ... sueID=7460

Maybe it'll have more photos of it pulling Gs.
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I'm watching...
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popcorn

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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 07:41

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weasel1962 wrote:
The bigger issue is the reliance of the F-22 on radar-guided missiles (at least until they resolve the AIm-9/HMS but still think a longer ranged IR is useful).

AIM-120D NEZ specially when launched from a Raptor poses a reliance issue?
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weasel1962

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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 08:44

An AIM-120D relies on radar guidance. Targeting is limited to how far one can maintain a lock. A low RCS plane is specifically designed to reduce radar signature. The J-20 may or may not be stealthy enough but clearly potential adversaries are moving in that direction. Sensor fusion solves part of the equation somehow I'm not sure its a long term solution.

The AIM-9X is a wonderful weapon but is it enough in an IR-only knife fight with opposing parties that have PL-10s, K-74M/2 and other increasingly longer ranged IR missiles?
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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 17:54

I like AFM, they generally do nice write ups on their feature topic. But really, how much of the J-20's capabilities can be revealed - especially at this point?

In discussing with an F-22 pilot, he seemed far more concerned about Chinese aircraft/weapons than their Russian counterparts. Said something to the effect they have good intelligence on Russian birds, not so much with the Chinese. Said the Chinese buy a lot of Russian stuff, but then tinker with it adding new radars and weapons, such that the capabilities are more of a mystery.

Further said they train to confront Chinese Flankers. This was a year or so ago. I have to imagine though that they're building a J-20 threat library. How far along that is is anyone's guess. If I were to speculate, I'd say those F-117's seen flying are simulating J-20's and similar threats for F-22's and 35's. Hard to believe they're still flying. If memory serves, we only built 59 and lost 1 in combat and at least one in an airshow crash.

Spare parts must be getting hard to come by...
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Unread post04 Jan 2019, 18:50

weasel1962 wrote:An AIM-120D relies on radar guidance. Targeting is limited to how far one can maintain a lock. A low RCS plane is specifically designed to reduce radar signature. The J-20 may or may not be stealthy enough but clearly potential adversaries are moving in that direction. Sensor fusion solves part of the equation somehow I'm not sure its a long term solution.

The AIM-9X is a wonderful weapon but is it enough in an IR-only knife fight with opposing parties that have PL-10s, K-74M/2 and other increasingly longer ranged IR missiles?

AIM-9X Block 2+ has a longer range and larger launch envelope, than the Chinese and Russian missiles.
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element1loop

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Unread post05 Jan 2019, 09:01

weasel1962 wrote:An AIM-120D relies on radar guidance.


I see no reason that's necessarily so. DAS or EOTS could guide a weapon to within seconds of a target before activation, using the datalink alone, and do so as far out as 100 km range with the EOTS in clear conditions at high-altitude, and as much as 40 km radius with a new DAS sensor. And that's just for single aircraft. But in a larger open flight, it could be much further, if using flanking ambush tactics to get a deeper data picture from the other F-35s. Seems to me passive engagements are possible with F-35 and AMRAAMs, except for emissions needed to support datalink nav updates to terminal. At which point several F-35 radars can simultaneously light-up the target to get stronger illumination plus more angles against lower RCS targets.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post06 Jan 2019, 22:44

element1loop wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:An AIM-120D relies on radar guidance.


I see no reason that's necessarily so. DAS or EOTS could guide a weapon to within seconds of a target before activation, using the datalink alone, and do so as far out as 100 km range with the EOTS in clear conditions at high-altitude, and as much as 40 km radius with a new DAS sensor. And that's just for single aircraft. But in a larger open flight, it could be much further, if using flanking ambush tactics to get a deeper data picture from the other F-35s. Seems to me passive engagements are possible with F-35 and AMRAAMs, except for emissions needed to support datalink nav updates to terminal. At which point several F-35 radars can simultaneously light-up the target to get stronger illumination plus more angles against lower RCS targets.


Let's not forget the ALR-94, and equivalent system on the F-35, can also be used to cue an AIM-120, and provide updates.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 00:26

sferrin wrote:

Let's not forget the ALR-94, and equivalent system on the F-35, can also be used to cue an AIM-120, and provide updates.



And all those systems are fused, in addition to the AIM-120D's onboard systems, making it far more difficult to elude. So when you factor in onboard active/passive sensors, 3rd party targeting data, 2 way datalinks, radar/INS/GPS/HOJ/digital signal processing ECCM, and....the element of surprise, that's a large kill chain to defeat, in addition to the kinematics.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 01:27

Has anybody seen the instrument panel yet?
Might as well be a DynonD2 pocket panel in there. ( on battery power LOL)

PS; A Dynon D2 should be MANDATORY equipment for ALL pilots (Civil AND Military.)

Most serious aviation accidents come from sensors/computers/instruments giving wrong information to pilots or systems.
And in most cases going BTB (Back To Basics) could have clarified or solved the issue.
=> See the latest Boeing 737 Max accident just to name an example among the many.

Lessons learned: It seems that the hammer to knock : "FLY ATTITUDE" into pilots is still too light.

Also that Air France that plunged into the ocean a couple of years ago?
An overspeed indication with the nose high in the sky and none of the pilots realized they where actually in a deep stall.
(The above is thousands of pages condensed in a single line.) => BTB => Back To Basics => FLY ATTITUDE.
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element1loop

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 06:54

sferrin wrote:
element1loop wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:An AIM-120D relies on radar guidance.


I see no reason that's necessarily so. DAS or EOTS could guide a weapon to within seconds of a target before activation, using the datalink alone, and do so as far out as 100 km range with the EOTS in clear conditions at high-altitude, and as much as 40 km radius with a new DAS sensor. And that's just for single aircraft. But in a larger open flight, it could be much further, if using flanking ambush tactics to get a deeper data picture from the other F-35s. Seems to me passive engagements are possible with F-35 and AMRAAMs, except for emissions needed to support datalink nav updates to terminal. At which point several F-35 radars can simultaneously light-up the target to get stronger illumination plus more angles against lower RCS targets.


Let's not forget the ALR-94, and equivalent system on the F-35, can also be used to cue an AIM-120, and provide updates.


Yup, that will cue the EOTS early and allow prior positioning, flanking and altitude changes, plus signature optimization and angles before the EOTS picks it up 'visually' to aid PID.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 09:01

sferrin wrote:Let's not forget the ALR-94, and equivalent system on the F-35, can also be used to cue an AIM-120, and provide updates.


Depends on if the J-20's radar is LPI or not, and how sensitive F-22 and F-35 ESM are. I mean, can the F-22 and F-35 detect LPI AESA radars at useful ranges?
The answer to that is probably highly classified so it is impossible to say for sure either way.

On the flip side, the J-20's ESM is likely even less sensitive.
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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 10:24

knowan wrote:
sferrin wrote:Let's not forget the ALR-94, and equivalent system on the F-35, can also be used to cue an AIM-120, and provide updates.


Depends on if the J-20's radar is LPI or not, and how sensitive F-22 and F-35 ESM are. I mean, can the F-22 and F-35 detect LPI AESA radars at useful ranges?
The answer to that is probably highly classified so it is impossible to say for sure either way.

On the flip side, the J-20's ESM is likely even less sensitive.


HF or E-2 VHF could provide pre positioning to cue the full array of passive sensors or even to initially cue an LPI AESA to locate them (which cuts both ways), then go passive to engage.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 07:05

First two J-20s deployed on the east coast of China.......


Translated from French




Since entering into service, officially announced on February 9, 2018 in a statement from the Chinese Air Force, the question as to where the new Chinese fighter J-20 will be sent in the first place is often debated. If some sources close to the program say that the "ram" will first be deployed on the east coast of the country, as we have also supposed in the file " Su-35 South, J-20 East " l Last year, there is nothing to verify it so far.




But with the arrival of the first J-20 at the base in Wuhu last Sunday, as reported by several local sources, rumors circulating for some time now seem to be confirmed.




According to this information, the 9th Fighter Squadron Brigade, former 9th Regiment of the 3rd Fighter Division, received two J-20 fighters on Sunday 13 January. The aircraft were followed by a Y-20 transport aircraft which took with it aeronautical support equipment.




This reception of the first J-20, although unconfirmed by any institutional source at the moment, could explain why HAO Jing Wen (郝井文), commander of the 9th brigade, has been the subject of extensive media coverage since the end of December , following his appointment as "Model of Times" (时代 楷模) by the information department of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party.




The fact that there is no (yet?) Official communication on the subject also means that there is no dissemination of images about the event. But some Internet users have already been able to photograph one of the aircraft near Wuhu, flying over an amusement park located near the 9th Brigade airbase. Indeed, we can see on this image a sign indicating the name of the park called "Fantawild Adventure" (方 特 欢乐 世界). A quick search on his site shows that it is a chain of amusement parks that has been established in ten Chinese cities (Wuhu, Tai'an, Shenyang, Datong, Shantou, Zhengzhou, Zhuzhou, Tianjin, Jiayuguan and Chongqing), including Wuhu.




And the 9th Brigade air base is actually less than 3 km northeast, as the crow flies, from Wuhu's Fantawild Adventure Park. This could explain why the J-20 on the amateur photo had his landing gear out.

With more and more fifth-generation foreign aircraft deployed to its environs, such as the first two South Korean Air Force F-35As arriving by March, or the recent purchase of 42 F-35B by Japan to equip its quasi-aircraft carriers, to have equivalent planes to defend its coast Is highly developed economically and demographically seems to be a choice not only judicious, but necessary for the Chinese army.




No doubt that the number of J-20 endowment by the 9th briagde should increase steadily, if not fast, at a pace still kept secret for the moment.




As for the next unit of the Chinese army that will receive this new "ram" flying - a word used by some analysts to qualify the aircraft and which is partially approved by his chief engineer - it is likely that it is the one based in the northeastern part of China, to be able to face the Korean peninsula and also protect the capital, Beijing. But we should be fixed on the question very soon.

http://www.eastpendulum.com/deux-premie ... e-la-chine
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