F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post06 Jun 2019, 06:12

marauder2048 wrote:What does baseline planform design age have to do with type status?


That's where the skull fractures are most at risk.
Offline

marauder2048

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 787
  • Joined: 14 Mar 2012, 06:46

Unread post06 Jun 2019, 06:36

weasel1962 wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:What does baseline planform design age have to do with type status?


That's where the skull fractures are most at risk.


Since you like anatomy please explain why the body that you endorse as
providing "appropriate oversight" describes the initial acquisition as that of "prototypes."
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post06 Jun 2019, 06:50

marauder2048 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:What does baseline planform design age have to do with type status?


That's where the skull fractures are most at risk.


Since you like anatomy please explain why the body that you endorse as
providing "appropriate oversight" describes the initial acquisition as that of "prototypes."


In the English dictionary, a prototype includes a first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction (such as an airplane). Nothing wrong with its use there.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prototype

The actual construct for the 1st 2 F-15EX to be bought is actually for the purposes of EMD. That's why its referred to as F-15EX EMD.
http://acqnotes.com/acqnote/acquisitions/emd-phase

EMD can include an increment of capability. Still don't see what's the issue.
Offline

marauder2048

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 787
  • Joined: 14 Mar 2012, 06:46

Unread post06 Jun 2019, 07:42

EMD prototypes come out of RDT&E funds not procurement; the Air Force asked for these birds out of procurement.

That's been disallowed and the program forcibly structured in a manner consistent with a new type.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post06 Jun 2019, 08:12

marauder2048 wrote:EMD prototypes come out of RDT&E funds not procurement; the Air Force asked for these birds out of procurement.

That's been disallowed and the program forcibly structured in a manner consistent with a new type.


I think its a bit premature when the final bill has not even been reconciled. We'll see.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5691
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post19 Jun 2019, 01:00

Shanahan out.......... :shock:


Considering the OSD was pushing the F-15EX on the USAF. Will his departure kill the deal???





Shanahan out: Acting defense secretary withdraws his confirmation bid amid family issues



Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan abruptly withdrew his name from consideration to take over the permanent Pentagon leadership post on Tuesday amid questions surrounding a series of domestic violence incidents that were brought to light during his background checks.


“It is unfortunate that a painful and deeply personal family situation from long ago is being dredged up and painted in an incomplete and therefore misleading way in the course of this process,” Shanahan said in a statement Tuesday. “I believe my continuing in the confirmation process would force my three children to relive a traumatic chapter in our family’s life and reopen wounds we have worked years to heal.”


President Donald Trump announced the move in a series of tweets shortly before Shanahan’s statement, just a few hours after numerous news reports of potential problems with Shanahan’s FBI background check. The commander in chief praised Shanahan for his work as acting secretary for the last six months.


“Acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan, who has done a wonderful job, has decided not to go forward with his confirmation process so that he can devote more time to his family,” Trump said on social media. “I thank Pat for his outstanding service.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... ation-bid/

By: Leo Shane III    6 hours
Offline

f119doctor

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 27
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2019, 00:07

Unread post06 Jul 2019, 00:29

One part of the F-15EX discussion that has not been addressed is the engines for this variant, and the support of this engine in the USAF fleet.

I have not seen a definitive engine selection, but it appears the the F110-129 is the leading candidate. With the AF has depot capability for the -129, there is not a single F-15 base set up with an intermediate engine repair shop for this engine. Most likely they will have to set up a Queen Bee operation at a domestic F-16 / -129 base to provide off base intermediate maintenance capability, with the attendant shipping delays and increasing the need for additional spare engines.

If they choose the F100-229 engine, there are still problems if they base the EX with F-15C aircraft. There is more commonality with the -220 engine, but there is still different support equipment, updated test cell, and personnel training to address.

The best support situation would be -229 engines and basing the EX aircraft at a current F-15E base. But this would run counter to the stated objective of beefing up the F-15C air superiority fleet.
P&W FSR (retired) - TF30 / F100 /F119 /F135
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post06 Jul 2019, 06:00

366th Maintenance sqn is providing engine maintenance for both F-15Es and about a dozen F-15SGs at Mountain home AFB and has been doing so for the last decade. The SGs, operated by the Singapore air force, use the 129Cs so there's a decade's worth of experience there. There have been composite wings of Cs and Es.

I am given to understand the F15 depot is centralised at Warner Robins ALC down at Georgia which already includes coalltion F-15s which is sub-contracted thru S&K,

Boeing is offering to take out 2 of the F-15QAs for the 2 EMD units so 129Cs could be an indicative engine choice.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3437
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post06 Jul 2019, 13:53

We are rapidly approchiing a point where this F-15EX is becoming a reality. Which is sad but..

I think we need to resign ourselves to the fact it's coming. The more I think about it, this has nothing to do with the F-15C. It has everything to do with beefing up US strike capabilies in terms of carrying more fuel, bigger weapons etc.. Maybe it means they're closer to hypersonic weapons than we've been led to believe, and they are so big they can only be carried externally on aircraft like the (B)Eagle. It mirrors the Israeli approach to things as well. They love doing things with 2 seat Eagles (or if you prefer, Beagles).

Look on the bright side. An Eagle with more thrust should be a great airshow performer... :mrgreen:
Offline

f119doctor

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 27
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2019, 00:07

Unread post06 Jul 2019, 23:25

weasel1962 wrote: by weasel1962 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:00 am

366th Maintenance sqn is providing engine maintenance for both F-15Es and about a dozen F-15SGs at Mountain home AFB and has been doing so for the last decade. The SGs, operated by the Singapore air force, use the 129Cs so there's a decade's worth of experience there. There have been composite wings of Cs and Es.

I am given to understand the F15 depot is centralised at Warner Robins ALC down at Georgia which already includes coalltion F-15s which is sub-contracted thru S&K,


I was unaware that Singapore had a training operation with their F-15SGs out of Mt. Home - thanks for the info. Are you sure that the 366th Component Maintenance Squadron is providing Intermediate level engine shop support for the -129s? With only 12 aircraft on site (probably 30 engines with spares), that is a big investment in support equipment, test cell, and personnel for a pretty small fleet. It would seem more likely that the 366 AMS would be providing Organizational flight line maintenance, while CMS engine shop might be performing some O-off maintenance on the engines while doing a wrap and pack for engines that need full Intermediate level teardown / repair. If anyone has any confirmation, I would appreciate it.

You are correct in that there have been composite wings with both F-15C/-220 and F-15E/-229. I believe that Lakenheath has operated that way, and I know that the 57th Engine Shop at Nellis maintains -220s and -229s for both F-15, F-16, and Thunderbird fleets (5 small fleets of engines that do not intermix). The -220 and -229 have a lot of commonality in their maintenance concepts and support equipment, so this is a much easier mix than with the F110 engines. In fact, Nellis has a third F-16 AMU that is fully a contractor supported operation that flies F110 powered F-16s. The engine shop at Nellis does not perform any maintenance on these engines, which are shipped off station for Intermediate level maintenance.

By the way, while Warner Robbins ALC is the USAF depot for all variants of the F-15, Oklahome City ALC is the USAF engine depot for TF33, F100, F110, F117, F119, and F135 engines.
P&W FSR (retired) - TF30 / F100 /F119 /F135
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5691
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Jul 2019, 23:46

mixelflick wrote:We are rapidly approchiing a point where this F-15EX is becoming a reality. Which is sad but..

I think we need to resign ourselves to the fact it's coming. The more I think about it, this has nothing to do with the F-15C. It has everything to do with beefing up US strike capabilies in terms of carrying more fuel, bigger weapons etc.. Maybe it means they're closer to hypersonic weapons than we've been led to believe, and they are so big they can only be carried externally on aircraft like the (B)Eagle. It mirrors the Israeli approach to things as well. They love doing things with 2 seat Eagles (or if you prefer, Beagles).

Look on the bright side. An Eagle with more thrust should be a great airshow performer... :mrgreen:


This has everything to do with Politics and Jobs. As you can't make a case for the F-15EX based on merit... :bang:
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5691
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Jul 2019, 23:59

Honestly, the decision to acquire F-15EX's is going to look very foolish. As by time they ever reach service. (late 2020's) As the price of the F-35 will be vastly cheaper. While the later blocks will be even more capable than the block 3F's of today.....
Offline

f119doctor

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 27
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2019, 00:07

Unread post08 Jul 2019, 20:06

weasel1962 wrote:https://www.mountainhome.af.mil/About/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/308586/366th-maintenance-group


The Mt Home AFB Fact Sheet confirms that the 366 AMXS is responsible for the flightline maintenance of 48 F-15E aircraft in the 389th and 391st Aircraft Maintenance Units and 12 F-15SG aircraft in the 428th Aircraft Maintenance Unit.

However, it does not confirm that F110-129 Intermediate Level engine shop maintenance is being performed on base by the 366 CMS. I don't know, but I would doubt it for this small fleet. Much of the off-equipment maintenance for many of the components between the F-15E and SG is common, but there is very little in common between F100 and F110 engine shop maintenance, equipment, and training.
P&W FSR (retired) - TF30 / F100 /F119 /F135
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1707
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post09 Jul 2019, 01:00

366th CMS
The 366th Component Maintenance Squadron provides safe and reliable on and off aircraft equipment maintenance in support of 70+ F-15 E/SG aircraft. The squadron includes over 260 personnel in 10 career fields assigned to Accessories (which includes Egress, Electro-Environmental, Fuels & Hydraulic sections), Avionics, Propulsion and Test, Measurement and Diagnostic Equipment Flights. The squadron maintains personnel and equipment readiness to support deliberate and contingency plans worldwide.


There is only 1 propulsion system on the F-15. The 129 also propels 70% of the USAF F-16 fleet. Maintaining it would be the least of USAF's concerns.
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests