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Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2018, 14:41
by babybat{}.net
element1loop wrote:Whereas according to you the Altius-M will have a range of ~2,000 km,

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 12 Sep 2018, 16:50
by mixelflick
This thread is amusing, like many of Russia's "breakthroughs" and associate IOC dates.

But I will say this: They would be better served to try and develop an unmanned UAV for air to air combat, vs. pouring more rubles down the PAK FA hole (I refuse to refer to it as the SU-57, which is an operational designation). That project has faltered badly, and by the time they get the right engines in it etc, it'll be hopelessly outclassed by updated Raptors and F-35's.

They are so far behind, they have to try the hail mary and although it's a longshot the alternative is grim: Continuing to pump out 4th gen Flankers in a 5th gen world.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 16 Sep 2018, 22:26
by project458
mixelflick wrote:This thread is amusing, like many of Russia's "breakthroughs" and associate IOC dates.

But I will say this: They would be better served to try and develop an unmanned UAV for air to air combat, vs. pouring more rubles down the PAK FA hole (I refuse to refer to it as the SU-57, which is an operational designation). That project has faltered badly, and by the time they get the right engines in it etc, it'll be hopelessly outclassed by updated Raptors and F-35's.




Ha, more predictions from the guy who still thinks Su-35 ans Su-57 share the same Avionics and Engines lol


They are so far behind, they have to try the hail mary and although it's a longshot the alternative is grim: Continuing to pump out 4th gen Flankers in a 5th gen world.


Russian air force is always getting new aircraft, just this month 3 new Su-30SM and 3 Su-34

Compare the Russian Air force of 2008 when the modernization started and now its like day and night, back then it had trouble hitting targets in Georgia in daylight and now its dropping glonass guided bombs at night in Syria 2000km from away from Russia border, and in a another 10 years their will be similar jump in capabilities, which include a couple squadrons of Su-57.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 17 Sep 2018, 00:21
by mixelflick
project458 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This thread is amusing, like many of Russia's "breakthroughs" and associate IOC dates.

But I will say this: They would be better served to try and develop an unmanned UAV for air to air combat, vs. pouring more rubles down the PAK FA hole (I refuse to refer to it as the SU-57, which is an operational designation). That project has faltered badly, and by the time they get the right engines in it etc, it'll be hopelessly outclassed by updated Raptors and F-35's.



They are so far behind, they have to try the hail mary and although it's a longshot the alternative is grim: Continuing to pump out 4th gen Flankers in a 5th gen world.


Russian air force is always getting new aircraft, just this month 3 new Su-30SM and 3 Su-34

Thanks so much for making my point!

Compare the Russian Air force of 2008 when the modernization started and now its like day and night, back then it had trouble hitting targets in Georgia in daylight and now its dropping glonass guided bombs at night in Syria 2000km from away from Russia border, and in a another 10 years their will be similar jump in capabilities, which include a couple squadrons of Su-57.


You know what? You're right! It's like they've gone from the 1980's to the 1990's! And what's this you say? A couple of squadrons of SU-57's in another 10 years? Bravo! Well done my man. You really did drive the point home: Russia is really movin' and shakin' in the biz of combat aircraft.

When can we expect you'll announce you have the internet on your cell phone?

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 17 Sep 2018, 18:24
by element1loop
As I remember the Su35 can do anything required by RuAF, so Su57 was deemed surplus to requirements until later in the century, when the West finally catches up to Su35 and manages to compete with it. Su57 is described as a 'trump card', to ensure Russia will not lose control of the air. So you only need almost but not quite none of them.

… As you know, our Su-35 is among the best aircraft in the world. Because of that there is little reason to rush the work toward mass-producing a fifth generation aircraft. This is our trump card which we can always play should the previous generation start falling behind their equivalents from leading world countries. - Yuri Borisov

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5340291


It appears RuAF have out-schmarted everyone.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 18 Sep 2018, 08:10
by babybat{}.net
element1loop wrote:As I remember the Su35 can do anything required by RuAF, so Su57 was deemed surplus to requirements until later in the century, when the West finally catches up to Su35 and manages to compete with it. Su57 is described as a 'trump card', to ensure Russia will not lose control of the air. So you only need almost but not quite none of them.


The main task of the pak-fa program was the preservation of competences and the design and engineering school. This task was successfully completed. As an example - the collective could create a black wing for the ms-21, a unique control system for the okhotnik-b, an integrated modular avionics for advanced vehicles, etc.
Without a pak-fa program it would not be possible anymore.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 18 Sep 2018, 10:07
by popcorn
babybat{}.net wrote:
element1loop wrote:As I remember the Su35 can do anything required by RuAF, so Su57 was deemed surplus to requirements until later in the century, when the West finally catches up to Su35 and manages to compete with it. Su57 is described as a 'trump card', to ensure Russia will not lose control of the air. So you only need almost but not quite none of them.


The main task of the pak-fa program was the preservation of competences and the design and engineering school. This task was successfully completed. As an example - the collective could create a black wing for the ms-21, a unique control system for the okhotnik-b, an integrated modular avionics for advanced vehicles, etc.
Without a pak-fa program it would not be possible anymore.

Glad you cleared that up. Our mistake for thinking they might actually be trying to build a 5gen jet and not just practice some new skills. :devil:

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 18 Sep 2018, 14:58
by mixelflick
babybat{}.net wrote:
element1loop wrote:As I remember the Su35 can do anything required by RuAF, so Su57 was deemed surplus to requirements until later in the century, when the West finally catches up to Su35 and manages to compete with it. Su57 is described as a 'trump card', to ensure Russia will not lose control of the air. So you only need almost but not quite none of them.


The main task of the pak-fa program was the preservation of competences and the design and engineering school. This task was successfully completed. As an example - the collective could create a black wing for the ms-21, a unique control system for the okhotnik-b, an integrated modular avionics for advanced vehicles, etc.

This is just awesome...

The spin just never ends in Russia, does it? Can you tell us why Russia started building a super carrier then stopped? Was that to "preserve competencies and the design and engineering school of Russian naval shipyards?

If the Russians succeeded with the PAK FA, they'd be building at least a hundred SU-57's. As it stands, a dozen (or maybe 15) are on order. I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is an experiment, not an operationally deployed combat aircraft...

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 09:06
by babybat{}.net
mixelflick wrote:The spin just never ends in Russia, does it? Can you tell us why Russia started building a super carrier then stopped? Was that to "preserve competencies and the design and engineering school of Russian naval shipyards?


You're confusing something. Russia has never started the construction of aircraft carriers. The shipyard, where the first Soviet super carrier was founded, is located in Nikolaev, Ukraine.

mixelflick wrote:If the Russians succeeded with the PAK FA, they'd be building at least a hundred SU-57's. As it stands, a dozen (or maybe 15) are on order.


In Russia, do not let in a series of aircraft that have not passed the full cycle of tests. Initially, a pilot batch is being built for transfer to the Lipetsk aviation center, where the development and implementation of methods of combat use of aviation complexes is being carried out. By results of tests, and after elimination of shortcomings, the decision on their acceptance on combat duty is made.

mixelflick wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is an experiment, not an operationally deployed combat aircraft...


You're wrong. The experimental aircraft was the su-47. Su-57 stage 1 is a prototype of perspective complex of front-line aviation.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 09:10
by babybat{}.net
popcorn wrote:Glad you cleared that up. Our mistake for thinking they might actually be trying to build a 5gen jet and not just practice some new skills. :devil:


In Russia are clearly understand that it is impossible to jump over generation.
Without bringing to the serial appearance of the 5th generation and the adoption of at least a few dozen fighters, it will not be possible to move to the 6th generation. Competence and experience cannot come from nowhere.

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 09:17
by popcorn
babybat{}.net wrote:
popcorn wrote:Glad you cleared that up. Our mistake for thinking they might actually be trying to build a 5gen jet and not just practice some new skills. :devil:


In Russia are clearly understand that it is impossible to jump over generation.
Without bringing to the serial appearance of the 5th generation and the adoption of at least a few dozen fighters, it will not be possible to move to the 6th generation. Competence and experience cannot come from nowhere.

But....but...but... what about the 6gen jet that's coming out next? :devil:

..

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 12:34
by element1loop
popcorn wrote:
babybat{}.net wrote:
popcorn wrote:Glad you cleared that up. Our mistake for thinking they might actually be trying to build a 5gen jet and not just practice some new skills. :devil:


In Russia are clearly understand that it is impossible to jump over generation.
Without bringing to the serial appearance of the 5th generation and the adoption of at least a few dozen fighters, it will not be possible to move to the 6th generation. Competence and experience cannot come from nowhere.

But....but...but... what about the 6gen jet that's coming out next? :devil:

..


Settle Pop, you're 50 years early. :mrgreen:

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 13:49
by babybat{}.net
popcorn wrote:But....but...but... what about the 6gen jet that's coming out next? :devil:


Unfortunately, I have no right to provide any information(
Appearance will be declassified after the first flight, but some information you get much earlier. I think that in 5-7 years it will be possible to conduct some discussions on this topic

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 13:52
by mixelflick
You're confusing something. Russia has never started the construction of aircraft carriers. The shipyard, where the first Soviet super carrier was founded, is located in Nikolaev, Ukraine.

OK. And what type of fighters were going to fly from it? From all available sources, it was to be Mig-29k's. See, when there are red stars on the wings it doesn't matter where it was built..

mixelflick wrote:If the Russians succeeded with the PAK FA, they'd be building at least a hundred SU-57's. As it stands, a dozen (or maybe 15) are on order.


In Russia, do not let in a series of aircraft that have not passed the full cycle of tests. Initially, a pilot batch is being built for transfer to the Lipetsk aviation center, where the development and implementation of methods of combat use of aviation complexes is being carried out. By results of tests, and after elimination of shortcomings, the decision on their acceptance on combat duty is made

How does series production differ from mass production? We've been told by posters here there'd be SU-57's rolling off production lines soon. Yet the Russian gov't issued a press release stating there will be NO mass production, and in fact they'd be skipping to the 6th gen fighter.

mixelflick wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is an experiment, not an operationally deployed combat aircraft...


You're wrong. The experimental aircraft was the su-47. Su-57 stage 1 is a prototype of perspective complex of front-line aviation.[/quote]

When you fail to mass produce a fighter, it was an experiment. PAK FA's experiment just got a little further along than the Mig I.44. Russian aviation is littered with such experiments, most of which have birds roosting in their rotting airframes today. Put it this way: There's a lot better chance PAK FA will wind up in a museum, vs. equipping front line Russian units and replacing Flankers (which offer about 90% of the capability, for a much lower price)..

Re: Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Unread postPosted: 19 Sep 2018, 14:44
by babybat{}.net
mixelflick wrote:OK. And what type of fighters were going to fly from it? From all available sources, it was to be Mig-29k's. See, when there are red stars on the wings it doesn't matter where it was built.


The su-33m and mig-29km fighters were planned,

Image

followed by replacement with a promising low-observed fighter based on the su-27km project

Image

and Yak-44RDL AWACS

Image

mixelflick wrote:How does series production differ from mass production? We've been told by posters here there'd be SU-57's rolling off production lines soon. Yet the Russian gov't issued a press release stating there will be NO mass production, and in fact they'd be skipping to the 6th gen fighter.


I'll try to explain.
Initially, it was planned to purchase 200-250 units. But due to the shift of the program terms by a several years to the right, the number is likely to be reduced to 96 units, and the released resources will be used to fine-tune okhotnik-b and some other promising programs.

mixelflick wrote:When you fail to mass produce a fighter, it was an experiment. PAK FA's experiment just got a little further along than the Mig I.44.


Sorry, but funny to read this)
If would you knew on how stillborn was 1.44 project, you would laughed too)

mixelflick wrote:Russian aviation is littered with such experiments, most of which have birds roosting in their rotting airframes today.


:shock: :shock: Can you show me at least one such experiments? 1.44 - was stillborn 4+ gen prototype, s-37 was NAVY fighter technology demonstrator, more about any extant to the stage of the prototype in Russia have not heard. Maybe you have some unique information?

mixelflick wrote:Put it this way: There's a lot better chance PAK FA will wind up in a museum, vs. equipping front line Russian units and replacing Flankers


Just be patient, the first contract for 12 aircraft will be followed by the next for 24 or 48, but the stage 2.

mixelflick wrote:(which offer about 90% of the capability, for a much lower price)..


Sorry, but you don't know the capabilities of su-57, it is a secret information.