Russian UAV/UCAV developments

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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knowan

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 20:17

milosh wrote:Airframe is surely more expensive then smaller airframe but it can carry more fuel and weapons which compensate price difference especially in Russia which is huge so if you go with smaller aircraft you need lot more airfields.

Big engine is cheaper then medium engine (RD-33MK) because RD-33MK is old design push to limits which is in fact more expensive then new AL-31 variants, and lot more expensive then next gen engine.

Btw it isn't really finished:
https://i.servimg.com/u/f10/19/89/13/22/2-42-110.jpg

Surely it will not use engine with AB and it will have sting tail, as we saw on tunnel model and on T-50 (testbed for swarm command aircraft) which have UCAV siluette on belly:
https://russianplanes.net/images/to245000/244251.jpg


Yeah, this is obviously an early prototype, nowhere near a finished aircraft.

My gut judgement is it is too ambitious for Russia. They haven't had a stealth airframe in service before, manned or unmanned, nor a flying wing.
It would have made more sense for them to start with a smaller conventional airframe recon drone with stealth features instead a full sized bird with all those problematic features at the same time.
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mixelflick

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 18:04

I concur...

They're getting way ahead of themselves. I mean, think about it. They won't have a fully functioning 5th gen until 2025 at the earliest. Now they're rolling out 6th gen birds? I'm not saying it's impossible, but they're going to be spending mucho rubles on both. If anything, it'll delay the SU-57 even further. They'll struggle to afford that alone, nevermind this "Hunter" contraption.

We're not aware of any comparable American airframes, at least that are flying. But Combat AIrcraft did a cover story almost a year ago on American black programs describing entire families of flying wing/ISR type aircraft. I'd imagine after ISR, air to ground/strike missions would be worked up next. And then finally, the technology for an air to air machine.

It's a tall order all around, but we are well on our way. How long has the RQ-170 been flying?? And now the rumored RQ-180?? I have to believe we have the ISR thing down with these drones, and quite likely the strike mission as well. Whatever work they've done on air to air drones I have to believe will be rolled into PCA.

This looks like an attempt to do something, just for the sake of doing something. And by making these pictures visible for the world to see, I bet that's exactly what's going on. Vlad loves showing off his super-weapons, whether he actually has them or not (as the case may be)...
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knowan

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 21:10

Looks like the RQ-180 has been flying since 2014-2015.
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element1loop

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Unread post26 Jan 2019, 00:42

mixelflick wrote:Now they're rolling out 6th gen birds? ... This looks like an attempt to do something, just for the sake of doing something.


I see nothing '6th-gen' there just another drone copying existing Western prototype/demonstrator limited-strike ISR drones. Are those also '6th-gens'? Russia would probably find it easier to get tactical targeting ISR with an unmanned VLO aircraft in Eastern Europe than to design and build a VLO manned strikefighter with such a capability. They already have 4th-gen aircraft to fire long-range ALCMs but will need current VLO enabled ISR targeting for when the satellites are kaput (see AEGIS Ashore).

So the Russians are apparently now fully accepting that VLO actually still works, despite their mighty 'anti-stealth' sensor array, else, why would they bother making this? (And China builds carriers when US also has anti-ship ballistic missile options, as China pursues 'informationization' and reliance on satellite data distribution, when USA and Allies now have copious ASAT weapons on hand.)

See Iranian knock-off of RQ-170 for outcomes.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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fidgetspinner

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Unread post26 Jan 2019, 06:29

knowan wrote:Looks like the RQ-180 has been flying since 2014-2015.


errr 1 slight issue. When I brought this up at a 4chan /k/ board saying it was similiar to the predator drone everyone laughed at me saying the RQ-180 was only for recon. Is that correct?
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knowan

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Unread post26 Jan 2019, 10:33

fidgetspinner wrote:
knowan wrote:Looks like the RQ-180 has been flying since 2014-2015.


errr 1 slight issue. When I brought this up at a 4chan /k/ board saying it was similiar to the predator drone everyone laughed at me saying the RQ-180 was only for recon. Is that correct?


There is very little publicly available information on the RQ-180; even the information on its size and what it looks like aren't confirmed, so it is impossible to rule out a strike capability.
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milosh

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Unread post07 Aug 2019, 20:43

First flight:
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vilters

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Unread post08 Aug 2019, 14:28

Stealth is still not in their dictionary. Look at that engine begging to be shot at.
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mixelflick

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Unread post08 Aug 2019, 14:39

You know, Russian approach to aircraft design isn't much different than AGILE/SCRUM methodology (used in software design).

AGILE is their overall developmental methodology, giving focus the the strategic vision of the project (think SU-27, meant to eclipse the F-15). SCRUM is the tactical implementation of AGILE's vision, focusing on incremental improvements delivered in a very regular fashion. They (arguably) got to their goal, but it stands in stark contrast to most Western approaches to designing and fielding new aircraft. The F-35 being the exeption.

When I read about this AGILE/SCRUM dynamic, a quote from someone in the USAF about the F-35 struck me. Paraphrasing, "Who wins the next war will depend on who can get the best software into the field the fastest". Or something to that effect..
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milosh

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Unread post08 Aug 2019, 18:00

vilters wrote:Stealth is still not in their dictionary. Look at that engine begging to be shot at.


Because it is flying with 117 engine, type-30 engine is shorter and have stealthy nozzle:
Image

Also Saturn official mentioned they are working on flat nozzle for Type-30 but not for Su-57. Maybe for this UCAV?
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falcon.16

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Unread post09 Aug 2019, 22:50

milosh wrote:
vilters wrote:Stealth is still not in their dictionary. Look at that engine begging to be shot at.


Because it is flying with 117 engine, type-30 engine is shorter and have stealthy nozzle:
Image

Also Saturn official mentioned they are working on flat nozzle for Type-30 but not for Su-57. Maybe for this UCAV?



Really, you can not fix the problem of the engine with the new iz-30, it seems shorter becasue perspective, but really if it is shorter, only will be few centimeters. It will have a massive thermal signature and a massive Radar signature. This engine needs to stay totally hide inside airframe similar than western UCAVs.

With flat nozzle they can fix some of this problems, but we will see. They tell many things and after is forgotten.

And do not forget it seems do not have S-duct.
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milosh

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Unread post10 Aug 2019, 14:46

@falcon.16

IMO, on final variant only stealthy nozzle would be exposed.

Type-30 is definitely shorter then 117 (more then few cm), type-30 doesn't have two segment nozzle as 117 or Al-31 have, and it have two HP stages less then 117.
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fidgetspinner

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Unread post25 Aug 2019, 15:03

su-70 airshow mock up photos with size comparisons.
Attachments
su-70 back.jpg
su-70 front.jpg
su-70 topside.jpg
su-70, f-117.jpg
su-70, X-47B.jpg
su-70, nEUROn.jpg
su-70, Taranis.jpg
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southerncross

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Unread post27 Sep 2019, 14:47

Su-57 and Okhotnik flying together. No proof of any concrete capability, but it looks great :D

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mixelflick

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Unread post27 Sep 2019, 15:35

Interesting...

Being as big as it is though (drone), isn't it going to be - expensive? And this would be on top of the SU-57's cost (not buying the bargain basement figure's they're throwing out, unless it lost a hell of a lot of capability). The whole thing makes you wonder..

1.) If the SU-57 is so good, why the need for the Hunter?
2.) If the SU-57 is so cheap, why not just buy more vs. go to the expense of developing a complex drone?

I have a feeling the Russians know the SU-57 isn't stealthy enough, and Hunter is there for insurance. I may be wrong, but if its such a great concept - why has the US not invested in companion drones for the F-22 and F-35?
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