Lockheed to offer Japan advanced F-22 F-35 hybrid?

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citanon

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 11:15

U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin Corp plans to offer Japan a stealth fighter design based on its export-banned F-22 Raptor and advanced F-35 Lightning II aircraft, two sources said.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1HR0MM
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popcorn

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 11:52

F-22 kinematic performance with F-35 avionics and sensors suite? Great for both countries if Japan foots the bill.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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eagleowl

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 12:02

popcorn wrote:F-22 kinematic performance with F-35 avionics and sensors suite? Great for both countries if Japan foots the bill.

Sounds capable as hell but also expensive as all hell. Not to mention Japan will probably ask LM to tweak the F-22's size and wing planform. Sounds like F-2 2.0 (which I guess, may be the point of the exercise)
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 12:44

Basically what former SECAF Wynne has proposed as an alternative to achieve a 6Gen capability.

https://sldinfo.com/2017/12/redefining- ... -aircraft/

Combining the proven combat strengths of both the F-22 and F-35, Secretary Wynne is proposing an accelerator, building from lessons learned with existing assets, but taking full advantage of subsystem research to shape a force multiplier further empowering the air superiority/combat revolution
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 13:42

popcorn wrote:Basically what former SECAF Wynne has proposed as an alternative to achieve a 6Gen capability.

https://sldinfo.com/2017/12/redefining- ... -aircraft/

Combining the proven combat strengths of both the F-22 and F-35, Secretary Wynne is proposing an accelerator, building from lessons learned with existing assets, but taking full advantage of subsystem research to shape a force multiplier further empowering the air superiority/combat revolution


I think such an approach would be much better than trying to make some 6th gen fighter when we are just starting to scratch the surface of what 5th gen fighters can do. We could just make F-22 sized fighter aircraft with latest design and manufacturing technology which probably would lead to much larger fuel load and higher efficiency (to have much longer range and endurance) with about similar performance figures. Then install F-35 derived sensors and avionics systems and software. This would combine the best of both F-22 and F-35 while possibly being exportable to selected countries like Japan. It could also replace F-22 at some point and be reasonably economical as it could be developed in line with F-35.
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popcorn

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 14:16

It may make sense for the USG and JG to partner and share the R&D costs. Both would wind up with a highly capable platform. Give Boeing a piece of the pie to get their buy-in.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 14:59

citanon wrote:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-defence-lockheed-exclusive/exclusive-lockheed-martin-to-propose-stealthy-hybrid-of-f-22-and-f-35-for-japan-sources-idUSKBN1HR0MM


Interesting...

But if the reports are true of the F-35's 20:1 kill ratio at Red Flag etc, why bother? It's only going to get a more powerful engine, improved fuel consumption/range, better weapons etc.. Wouldn't surprise me if the 2023 F-35 super cruises at a comfortable mach 1.3 or more, carrying far better AAM's and perhaps even better sensors.

I don't see China's J-20 as a serious air to air threat. Neither do I think the J-31 is going to measure up to the F-35. Isn't Lockheed already working on a 6th gen/PCA proposal? That's going to be a lot of time and energy split across 2 different projects. If I was Lockheed, I'd have my best people on PCA and of course, the rest of the company focused on pumping out F-35's for the next 20 years... not helping the Japanese build an F-22/35 hydrid.
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ricnunes

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 15:03

eagleowl wrote:
popcorn wrote:F-22 kinematic performance with F-35 avionics and sensors suite? Great for both countries if Japan foots the bill.

Sounds capable as hell but also expensive as all hell. Not to mention Japan will probably ask LM to tweak the F-22's size and wing planform. Sounds like F-2 2.0 (which I guess, may be the point of the exercise)


Yes, that what's what it also sounds to me, except that I think that such aircraft would be a "larger"/modified F-35 instead of a modified F-22 or resuming, like you hinted (I guess) a version 2.0 of the F-16/F-2 (but now with F-35/F-3).
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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juretrn

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 15:59

Hmm......
Enlarged F-35 with 2xF135 and loads of fuel to take the fight to the enemy?
Russia stronk
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eagleowl

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 17:39

The thing is, try to enlarge the F-35 too much and you basically are 90% of the way to a clean sheet design. Also, the talk is of a F-22/F-35 Hybrid and for that to be true, you would need an aspect of the F-22 to integrate into the prospective F-3. What is there to take from the F-22 other than the airframe? The F-35 has more advanced CLAW, Sensors, Avionics, and other subsystems.
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citanon

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 19:20

eagleowl wrote:
popcorn wrote:F-22 kinematic performance with F-35 avionics and sensors suite? Great for both countries if Japan foots the bill.

Sounds capable as hell but also expensive as all hell. Not to mention Japan will probably ask LM to tweak the F-22's size and wing planform. Sounds like F-2 2.0 (which I guess, may be the point of the exercise)


My thoughts exactly. I wonder if this ends in a similar situation. Japan ends up with super F22 while US moves on to 6th gen soon there after.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 19:38

This smells like an updated F-22 with EOTS/DAS/MADL and F-135 engines. Biggest bang for buck.
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milosh

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 20:04

marsavian wrote:This smells like an updated F-22 with EOTS/DAS/MADL and F-135 engines. Biggest bang for buck.


No need for F135 in F-22. F119 is beast and ideal for super cruising. Add putting F135 inside F-22 airframe isn't easy at all not only because space problems.
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Fox1

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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 20:41

If such a beast comes to fruition, I hope our own government will have the good sense to buy some of them too.
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Unread post20 Apr 2018, 22:07

Better yet, let Japan basically fund the navalized F-22A/F-35C love child with ADVENT engines for us and F135 for them...
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