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Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 02:02
by juretrn
Isn't the blk 3 SH also getting radar blockers?
Yet no one is calling that thing VLO (except a certain orange buffoon)

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 02:10
by marsavian
Already present in earlier blocks.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 09:35
by milosh
marsavian wrote:Only from the front and rear. From the sides its average is around 15 dBsm which is completely unstealthy and frankly I can't see being made up with RAS/RAM. From the sides the Su-57 would be very visible to both fighter and missile radar.


Yeap but model have classic nozzle because back then they didn't know Russian will test something like LOAN nozzle for Su-57:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/c3UKL.jpg
https://youtu.be/282XF5vBTFM?t=28

@juretrn

Radar blocker is normal solution for stealths, some UAV/UCAV use it, F-117 use it,
I think B-2 have radar blocker too, I saw earlier some photo where it can be seen in intake, I don't know was that photoshop or real.

Japs in their studies of future fighter consider them they even go that far they consider integrated it with engine where engine IGV and engine fan blades would be design in such way so radar return would be minimal.


And I almost forgot flying bath tub, F-32.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2019, 13:13
by mixelflick
Bet that's the last "deployment' we see for a LONG time...

It is interesting though, to watch how Russia chips away at the SU-57's problems and further develops it. In much the same way they did on the Sukhoi T-10, culminating in the SU-35. Decades and decades of refinement in that case led to a world class fighter, albeit we have little combat experience to properly evaluate it.

It was supposed to replace SU-27's 1:1 in Russian service, but I think that's a pipe dream at this point. They're going to have to settle for a mish mash of various Flanker types, and perhaps a token amount of Mig-35's and SU-57's.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 05:10
by charlielima223
milosh wrote:
Yeap but model have classic nozzle because back then they didn't know Russian will test something like LOAN nozzle for Su-57:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/c3UKL.jpg
https://youtu.be/282XF5vBTFM?t=28



Cheezy video btw. As its looking the PAKFA wont be a "Top Gun" any time soon.
Happy St Patricks day! :pint:
As I type this I'm already 3 shots into Jameson and got Boondock Saints playing in the background!

At any rate; just because it looks like it doesn't mean it will be as good. The Chinese are even doing their own take on the LOAN design and have incorporated a TVC design similar to the F-16VISTA

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Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 07:37
by marsavian
milosh wrote:
marsavian wrote:Only from the front and rear. From the sides its average is around 15 dBsm which is completely unstealthy and frankly I can't see being made up with RAS/RAM. From the sides the Su-57 would be very visible to both fighter and missile radar.


Yeap but model have classic nozzle because back then they didn't know Russian will test something like LOAN nozzle for Su-57.


The nozzle is only a small part of the 15 dBsm, it's mostly the long flattish side profile. This will have to be alleviated using RAS/RAM ... if they can.

Image

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 09:23
by milosh
charlielima223 wrote:
milosh wrote:
Yeap but model have classic nozzle because back then they didn't know Russian will test something like LOAN nozzle for Su-57:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/c3UKL.jpg
https://youtu.be/282XF5vBTFM?t=28



Cheezy video btw. As its looking the PAKFA wont be a "Top Gun" any time soon.
Happy St Patricks day! :pint:
As I type this I'm already 3 shots into Jameson and got Boondock Saints playing in the background!

At any rate; just because it looks like it doesn't mean it will be as good. The Chinese are even doing their own take on the LOAN design and have incorporated a TVC design similar to the F-16VISTA

Image
Image


In stealth tech look is important. You can't have stealthy nozzle with classic round one. So new nozzle surely is better in stealth therm. Also that is prototype nozzle one of them, becuase I saw at least two different nozzles for Su-57,

This one which was in Salyut factory, saw-toothed edge of serrated feather:
http://in24.org/wp-content/uploads/2017 ... F-30-2.jpg

and this one Saturn nozzle:
https://cdn.aviaforum.ru/images/2017/11 ... 958d4e.jpg

It look similar to one in video but feather tip is totally different and it more rounded then one on video.

So it look like nozzle RCS is important for Russians. And you have that Saturn flat nozzle which is in development (latest interview with Saturn CEO) it isn't for Su-57 even though it is nozzle for AL-51 engine.

Chinese nozzle looks really rounded from side, maybe it is new nozzle for J-10/11, I doubt they would use such rounded nozzle on stealth.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 12:18
by madrat
Looks like purely research. They even scabbed on mounts for a camera system to stare at the nozzle.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2019, 04:38
by charlielima223
marsavian wrote:
The nozzle is only a small part of the 15 dBsm, it's mostly the long flattish side profile. This will have to be alleviated using RAS/RAM ... if they can.

Image


I doubt RAM can do much about the PAKFA's side profile signature to a radar. From the front view the PAKFA appears to have LO complaint design

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yet as you travel further back the shaping of the engine nacelle changes to the more conventional rounded lobes

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The same cannot be said of the F-22 that maintains a constant angle throughout the majority of the fuselage

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and the F-35 using complex blended cuvatures
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Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2019, 08:07
by milosh
@charlielima223

He mean reduction in RCS value because without RAM&RAS, Su-57 sides have big RCS as you can see in study. With RAM&RAS it could be noticable lower.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 29 Mar 2019, 19:05
by falcon.16
milosh wrote:@charlielima223

He mean reduction in RCS value because without RAM&RAS, Su-57 sides have big RCS as you can see in study. With RAM&RAS it could be noticable lower.


Shapping is the bigger contribution to a litle RCS.

With a very good shapping and RAS+RAm you can get a VLO fighter.

With a not good Shapping + (RAM+RAS) you can not get a VLO Fighter.

If it should so easy than only put RAM+RAS, Superhornet would be a VLO fighter same or Rafale or EF.-

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2019, 07:49
by weasel1962
RuAF-Sukhoi contract for 76 Su-57 to be delivered by 2028.

https://tass.com/defense/1065905

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2019, 16:30
by mixelflick
weasel1962 wrote:RuAF-Sukhoi contract for 76 Su-57 to be delivered by 2028.

https://tass.com/defense/1065905


Similar propaganda piece was run today over at militarywatchmagazine.com. The difference in the wording indicates a more aggressive delivery schedule to front line unit. To be honest though, how many times have we heard this? When it first flew in 2010, an IOC of 2013 was cited. Then 2014, 2015. Then the news there would be no mass production, only a dozen ordered. Then news that it was really 2 airframes to be delivered over the next 2-3 years while the engines are refined. Then we hear Vlad negotiated the purchase price downward, so 76 examples could be ordered. Now we hear it's still 76 for the RuAF, but those are to all be delivered by 2028.

What gives?

Several possibilities..

1.) Chinese, UAE, Turkey etc foreign orders are secured, along with the $ to ramp up production, OR
2.) They got intelligence as to our PCA being further along than they thought, OR
3.) The Russian Air Force figured out they were wrong when stating no mass production b/c their current aircraft were "good enough" to take on upgraded F-15's, 16's 18's, Typhoon, Rafale etc OR
4.) Some combination of the above 3?

My guess would be that they're talking big, in order to get a foreign customer to commit the necessary $. From there they have something to work with. Without it, they're really in the same spot they've been in for the last decade - the project is incomplete, and in need of funding (from somewhere) to complete it.

We shall see..

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2019, 02:19
by weasel1962
A bit more Russki propaganda, they flew 6 Su-57 to escort Putin.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ters-64531

Probably just to drum up interest in export sales.
Export clearance was applied for according to news reports earlier in Mar 2019 during Lima 2019.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2019, 12:54
by Scorpion1alpha
Little known fact: Putin flies Su-57s! He is most uber person to ever pilot the beast. He is the only person to determine whether the Su-57 is worthy for others to have.

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