SU-57 deployed to Syria

[fidgetspinner]

Seems that they are planning on having a missile that is similar to the Kinzhal but yet they want it to fit inside the SU-57.

http://tass.com/defense/1034559

"In accordance with Russia's State Armament Program for 2018-2027, Su-57 jet fighters will be equipped with hypersonic missiles. The jet fighters will receive missiles with characteristics similar to that of the Kinzhal missiles, but with inter-body placement and smaller size," the source said.

Anyone got a good guess what size they would need. For example the kinzhal is like 8 meters long how much room would they have left to fit this inside the SU-57? What size would the missile have to be reduced to?

[knowan]

Seems that they are planning on having a missile that is similar to the Kinzhal but yet they want it to fit inside the SU-57.

http://tass.com/defense/1034559

"In accordance with Russia's State Armament Program for 2018-2027, Su-57 jet fighters will be equipped with hypersonic missiles. The jet fighters will receive missiles with characteristics similar to that of the Kinzhal missiles, but with inter-body placement and smaller size," the source said.

Anyone got a good guess what size they would need. For example the kinzhal is like 8 meters long how much room would they have left to fit this inside the SU-57? What size would the missile have to be reduced to?

According to this site: https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... fa-russia/ the Su-57 weapon bays are 4.6 meters long by 1.0 meters wide.



The bays do not appear to have a great volume or depth to them however:


They are probably only half a meter or less in depth.

Given the Iskander is 7.3 meters long by 0.92 meters in diameter, it would have to be drastically shrunk to fit inside those bays, resulting in much reduced missile performance.

It would probably result in something similar to the Kh-15 (4.78 meters length, 0.455 meters diameter); Mach 5 speed with 300 km range.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

I question that lower photo. The center missile is literally sticking out of the bay.

[botsing]

I question that lower photo. The center missile is literally sticking out of the bay.

That "center" missile actually looks like a second store level of the left side missile, like this if you look at it from the rear:

Code: Select all

     | _ |     
----[|---|]----
     /O O\
      O

I am not sure how that can fit in the Zoomski, especially the rear doesn't look that deep.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

I suppose

[knowan]

Also note that Russian claims of Mach 10 velocity and 2000 km range for the Kinzhal are likely severely inflated about real performance.

The claim the missile has a 3000 km range when launched by the Tu-22M is a giveaway, indicating Russia is counting combat radius of the launch aircraft as part of the missile range.
Given the MiG-31 has a combat radius of about 1400 km and the Tu-22M about 2400 km, that suggests the actual range of the missile is merely 600 km.

[milosh]

The bays do not appear to have a great volume or depth to them however:

That is cgi done by some fanboy it isn't accurate (first drawing is lot closer to reality), weapon bay will carry two missiles not three. How deep weapon bay is? Well Su-57 can internally carry big Kh-59 in rear weapon bay:
https://cdn2.desu-usergeneratedcontent. ... 737227.gif

Kindzal inside Su-57? Nonsense.

Also note that Russian claims of Mach 10 velocity and 2000 km range for the Kinzhal are likely severely inflated about real performance.

The claim the missile has a 3000 km range when launched by the Tu-22M is a giveaway, indicating Russia is counting combat radius of the launch aircraft as part of the missile range.
Given the MiG-31 has a combat radius of about 1400 km and the Tu-22M about 2400 km, that suggests the actual range of the missile is merely 600 km.

We can estimate Kindzal range based on Iskander-M, its speed is Mach 6 and it have 400-500km range. Kindzal is Mach 10 and is similar dimension as Iskander-M.

http://www.convertalot.com/ballistic_tr ... lator.html

When I put Isknader-M data (at 15km it achieve max speed of 2km/s) I got ~420km for Iskander-M.

When use Kindzal data (max speed 3.3km/s and I use 30km as alitutude (launch from 15km)) I got ~1100km range.

Carrying Kindzal would create much bigger drag for MiG-31 then when it carries four semi recessed R-33 missiles so combat radius for MiG-31 with missiles can't be used for analyse.

[charlielima223]

I am skeptical of this picture. IMO this picture is CG modified picture. Mainly when looking at the internal bay itself, there doesn't look like there are any internal workings. It looks too clean. In contrast here are F-22 and F-35's internal weapon bays.

[knowan]

That is cgi done by some fanboy it isn't accurate (first drawing is lot closer to reality), weapon bay will carry two missiles not three. How deep weapon bay is? Well Su-57 can internally carry big Kh-59 in rear weapon bay:
https://cdn2.desu-usergeneratedcontent. ... 737227.gif

I hadn't noticed the second image was likely CGI when I linked it, but I agree it likely is.

Kh-59 is 38cm in diameter, which give a lower limit to the bay depth.

We can estimate Kindzal range based on Iskander-M, its speed is Mach 6 and it have 400-500km range. Kindzal is Mach 10 and is similar dimension as Iskander-M.

http://www.convertalot.com/ballistic_tr ... lator.html

When I put Isknader-M data (at 15km it achieve max speed of 2km/s) I got ~420km for Iskander-M.

When use Kindzal data (max speed 3.3km/s and I use 30km as alitutude (launch from 15km)) I got ~1100km range.

Carrying Kindzal would create much bigger drag for MiG-31 then when it carries four semi recessed R-33 missiles so combat radius for MiG-31 with missiles can't be used for analyse.

I'll admit my analysis was rough and inaccurate.

Good to see calculated data that proves the 2000 km range claim is garbage though, thanks for providing that.


That said, there are indications the Iskander-M performance claims are inflated too; it may only have the same 280 km range as the Iskander-E export variant.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/worl ... /ss-26.htm

The first Iskander tactical surface-to-surface ballistic missile system has entered service with the Russian Army's Western Military District, regional commander Arkady Bakhin said on 14 December 2010. "We are at practically 98 percent permanent readiness. We are carrying out reequipment and delivery of new types of weapons," Bakhin said. Iskander-M ballistic missile systems, which can effectively engage two targets within a minute at a range of up to 280 kilometers, will be provided to all Russian Ground Forces missile brigades by 2018, the country’s defense minister said 28 June 2013. The missiles have a non-ballistic flight path that is difficult for the enemy to predict and are guided throughout their flight. A missile brigade in southern Russia’s Astrakhan Region received an advanced Iskander-M missile complex.

https://militarytechcooperations.wordpr ... ad/page/2/

MOSCOW, June 28 (RIA Novosti) – Iskander-M ballistic missile systems, which can effectively engage two targets within a minute at a range of up to 280 kilometers, will be provided to all Russian Ground Forces missile brigades by 2018, the country’s defense minister said Friday.

[milosh]

I dont want to create more off topic but here you have nice analyse of Iskander:
https://www.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/1 ... L4_42w.pdf

Iskander-E is 280km and that is becuase:
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/mtcr

to restrict their exports of missiles and related technologies capable of carrying a 500-kilogram payload at least 300 kilometers or delivering any type of weapon of mass destruction.

[garrya]

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.

That dude on Quora (Paul Krupa) is you.
Your previous account here is wewuzkangz.
Same ID, same location, same tiring arguments.
You even post the same article on Quora as the one you posted here.

1.PNG (69.57 KiB) Viewed 33431 times

https://www.quora.com/Can-we-expect-a-r ... ear-future
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=54642&p=405952#p405952

[knowan]

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.

That dude on Quora (Paul Krupa) is you.
Your previous account here is wewuzkangz.
Same ID, same location, same tiring arguments.
You even post the same article on Quora as the one you posted here.

1.PNG

https://www.quora.com/Can-we-expect-a-r ... ear-future
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=54642&p=405952#p405952

I had similar suspicions; he seems like the immature sort that would still be butthurt about being banned. And stupid enough to try something like this.

[firebase99]

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.

That dude on Quora (Paul Krupa) is you.
Your previous account here is wewuzkangz.
Same ID, same location, same tiring arguments.
You even post the same article on Quora as the one you posted here.

1.PNG

https://www.quora.com/Can-we-expect-a-r ... ear-future
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=54642&p=405952#p405952

Good catch... its assumed hes a paid Kremlin troll on Quora.

[popcorn]

I got a very odd feeling that if this guy joined this forum there are going to be like 20 pissed off comments with the guy getting banned the moment he starts his account here. Thankfully the newbie privilege here will prevent him from posting too much. https://qr.ae/TUhm5x Let everyone's blood pressure rise at their own discretion.

That dude on Quora (Paul Krupa) is you.
Your previous account here is wewuzkangz.
Same ID, same location, same tiring arguments.
You even post the same article on Quora as the one you posted here.

1.PNG

https://www.quora.com/Can-we-expect-a-r ... ear-future
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=54642&p=405952#p405952

Good catch... its assumed hes a paid Kremlin troll on Quora.

LOL...BUSTED...

[hythelday]

LOL what kind of backhanded tactic is that? Post a negative comment about someone (yourself) just to get people to click on a link. ROFAR© technology believer is really desperate for attention I see.