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Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2018, 16:39
by white_lightning35
awsome wrote:"Learn something new".
A basic primer.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _CT468.pdf



Actually read it and you will see where the worlds problems lie. Anyone who may be an economic competitor is seen by those setting American policy as "being at war" with America. f@%king psychos...[/quote]

I'm curious; did you actually read the paper? It is not about Russia being an economic competitor. Russia is nowhere close to being an economic competitor. Its economy is smaller than that of Texas alone. But that is not important here.

Russia is a cold, soggy leftover of the USSR that still retains some of its military and diplomatic clout. The Russians believe they can make up for the loss by engaging in what the your link talks about: hybrid warfare. Russia has many clever people left over who want to return the Motherland to its former glory, and they realize they can't do it conventionally. Hence wearing down the other countries slowly and surely, sowing discord.

And please don't pretend that poor, poor, Russia is being bullied by evil America. America and Russia are enemies, plain and simple, and everyone with half a brain knows it. Russia is just the little Chihuahua right now that has to bark loudly and bite the other dogs when they're sleeping, in order to make up for its lack of size.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2018, 20:23
by awsome
I'm curious; did you actually read the paper? It is not about Russia being an economic competitor. Russia is nowhere close to being an economic competitor. Its economy is smaller than that of Texas alone. But that is not important here.

Russia is a cold, soggy leftover of the USSR that still retains some of its military and diplomatic clout. The Russians believe they can make up for the loss by engaging in what the your link talks about: hybrid warfare. Russia has many clever people left over who want to return the Motherland to its former glory, and they realize they can't do it conventionally. Hence wearing down the other countries slowly and surely, sowing discord.

And please don't pretend that poor, poor, Russia is being bullied by evil America. America and Russia are enemies, plain and simple, and everyone with half a brain knows it. Russia is just the little Chihuahua right now that has to bark loudly and bite the other dogs when they're sleeping, in order to make up for its lack of size.[/quote]

It is not just American relations with Russia. Any nation that has an independent foreign policy and pursues independent national objectives (like selling oil in currency other than US dollars) is primed and ready for a "freedom" beat down. Europe is at the edge of going their own way and it will be interesting to see what Rand has to say about them in a few years...

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 12:12
by babybat{}.net
geforcerfx wrote:I haven't found a single Russian company that designs ASICs or FPGAs so they are prob going to rely on standard multipurpose CPUs for most of the processing.


Maybe you were looking bad. In Russia and Belarus, there are a number of manufacturers of both ASICs and FPGAs.
For example VZPP-S, Micron, Angstrem and others.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 13:45
by juretrn
babybat{}.net wrote:
geforcerfx wrote:I haven't found a single Russian company that designs ASICs or FPGAs so they are prob going to rely on standard multipurpose CPUs for most of the processing.


Maybe you were looking bad. In Russia and Belarus, there are a number of manufacturers of both ASICs and FPGAs.
For example VZPP-S, Micron, Angstrem and others.

They may exist, but they're as relevant as last year's snow.
A challenge for you.
Go here
http://uk.farnell.com/
or here
https://www.digikey.com/
and find a single component that's built, or even designed in Russia. Good luck!

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2018, 14:49
by mixelflick
vilters wrote:
Be strong ;
Cut the cheese right here and right now, and start all over again on a clean sheet of paper.

But? They are Russians, and given a few dozen wodka's, they are not smart at all.


How likely do you think a clean sheet design will happen?

It's been 8 years since PAK FA first flew. They've got a lot invested in it so I'm guessing the chances are between nil and zero. A scaled down SU-57 would be a nightmare. Much of its good points would be lost (i.e. extreme range, capable of carrying a large array of weapons and sensors). If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.

Without an F-35 type aircraft, we are looking at the end of Russian being competitive with the West. There was a time (Flanker export heyday) where you could get F-15 like performance for quite a bargain. Now, the best they can do is sell you 4++ jets in a 5th gen world. China will eat them alive with the FC-31, and between that and the F-35 nobody's going to be buying Russian jets anymore. Sad, given they have some really talented airframe engineers over there...

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 10:18
by babybat{}.net
juretrn wrote:They may exist, but they're as relevant as last year's snow.

Information on more relevant samples is still classified.
It is obvious that they do not belong to the last generation, but they exist.

juretrn wrote:A challenge for you.
Go here
http://uk.farnell.com/
or here
https://www.digikey.com/
and find a single component that's built, or even designed in Russia. Good luck!


As an example:

Image
Image
Image

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 10:50
by babybat{}.net
mixelflick wrote:If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.


The design of a light single-engine version of the "1.42 MFI" was called "4.12 LFI".
This project is deadlock and outdated.

Already in 2000s the company had more interesting prospects, like LFI S-21.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 10:52
by babybat{}.net
double-post

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 15:34
by mixelflick
babybat{}.net wrote:
mixelflick wrote:If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.


The design of a light single-engine version of the "1.42 MFI" was called "4.12 LFI".
This project is deadlock and outdated.

Already in 2000s the company had more interesting prospects, like LFI S-21.


LFI S21?

Looks like a stealthed up J-10C!

Would have been a much better project than the SU-57 IMO. The world needs a good Mig-29 follow on (Russia too), and I don't think the Mig-35 is going to cut it...

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 18:26
by charlielima223
babybat{}.net wrote:Image
Image
Image


A good example is Russian electronic components and products. While Russia does produce and manufacture their own, compared to the United States, S Korea, Japan, and Western Europe; Russia isn't anywhere in the same league. A good example/question of this is how many major electronic consumer goods use Russian built electronic components. If we were to relate this to modern avionics and radar, Russia would seemingly fall behind the United States. Not saying that they are not effective, they just wont have the same level of quality.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 12 Jun 2018, 18:46
by juretrn
After a week of searching, he finds 3 examples, and that's about it. Truth is, there is no real manufacturing base for semiconductors in Russia, and their best talent is "brain-draining" to the West (yet again). In case of relations with the West going downhill, who are they going to subcontract the designs they do have to?
What they do have is not competitive in the slightest, and could just barely (if at all) be considered adequate. There's a good reason why the early Zhuk AESAs were rejected by their air force and are about to field their first AESA sets with the Su-57: they are at least 20 years behind. So the next time you read about some super duper jammer or radar from Russia...

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 14:03
by mixelflick
juretrn wrote:After a week of searching, he finds 3 examples, and that's about it. Truth is, there is no real manufacturing base for semiconductors in Russia, and their best talent is "brain-draining" to the West (yet again). In case of relations with the West going downhill, who are they going to subcontract the designs they do have to?
What they do have is not competitive in the slightest, and could just barely (if at all) be considered adequate. There's a good reason why the early Zhuk AESAs were rejected by their air force and are about to field their first AESA sets with the Su-57: they are at least 20 years behind. So the next time you read about some super duper jammer or radar from Russia...


I thought the first Russian AESA was to be on their Mig-35's? Or is that what you were referring to, those were rejected? I didn't think Russia had even taken delivery of her Mig-35's yet...

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 14:08
by marsavian
AESA, like TVC, on the MiG-35 is an option not standard. Apparently for cost reasons no customer, domestic or foreign, is currently taking up either option.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2018, 22:52
by juretrn
mixelflick wrote:I thought the first Russian AESA was to be on their Mig-35's? Or is that what you were referring to, those were rejected? I didn't think Russia had even taken delivery of her Mig-35's yet...

Indeed it was, but you know, the reality of MiG-35 is different to what was initially (and still is being) promised.
I am thinking of this thing:
http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/Zh ... 57005.aspx

I can't for the life of me remember where I read it was rejected by RuAF, but IIRC it was. Some one-off protoypes, at least.

Re: SU-57 deployed to Syria

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2018, 08:20
by gideonic
The current Mig-35 is actually just a "land version" of the Mig-29K. So no thrust-vectoring nor AESA