F-15C the latest Eagle avionics update

Fox1 · by **Fox1** » 23 Dec 2018, 21:42

I would imagine those 12 would just be the initial buy for that fiscal year's budget. I don't think they intend to just buy 12 new F-15X fighters in total. And it isn't like this is the only activity Boeing has going on with the F-15. They currently are filling contracts for Saudi Arabia's F-15SA (though that one may be nearing completion, I'm not sure) and Qatar's F-15QA. If we are going to buy additional Eagles, now would be the time to do, as the Saudis and Qataris have footed the development costs for the improvements. There is also talk of Israel likely purchasing more Eagles as well. So between all of these orders and potential orders, the Boeing plant could be churning out new fighters at a pretty decent clip for the next few years.

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 23 Dec 2018, 21:49

wrightwing wrote:Buying more F-15s doesn't make sense, but buying only 12 really doesn't make sense. Talk about an orphan fleet, with exceptionally high acquisition cost.

Boeing is selling at cost to keep the line active. I think this is just purchase number 1, with more orders in the future if Boeing lives up to what they are promising.

If the F-15x gets a upgraded engines I would assume they will stick with Pratt 229's to keep commanility with the strike eagle fleet.

mixelflick wrote:
But buying the F-15X doesn't make sense. On the one hand, they say they want it for homeland defense. Really? You don't need 22 air to air missiles for that, the F-15C will suffice. OTOH, they say they want it for the air defense of England and Japan. That and presumably it would stand shoulder to shoulder with the F-22 as a flying magazine. Those are better applications, but each suffers vulnerability from a specific weapons system: The S-300/S-400. Just one or two batteries deployed puts them at risk.

Which is why this $ is best put into accelerated F-35 buys. It has better range, stealth, sensors etc.. And I can't believe people keep missing this one: It can carry plenty of AAM's externally: 14 AMRAAMs and 2 9x's. OK, hasn't been tested yet but neither has the F-15X's 22 AAM loadout. The F-35's potential is there, and in that configuration it would still be stealthier than an F-15.

Just buy more F-35's...

How do you plan to buy more, Lockheed is already stretched trying to get production up to demand for current purchase levels. The F-35 is the better product for multimission no arguments there. But the F-15 as a missile truck and for air defense is still a very usable option. It doesn't need 22 missiles but it's high speed dash, large advanced radar, and range makes it great for air defense missions, something it can do a lot cheaper than the F-22. Another factor to consider is the F-35 is a transition aircraft, pilots and squadrons have to change to the F-35, the bases the squadrons are at have to have upgrades and improvments done. The F-15 is already in service all the systems are already in place for the aircraft. So we are basically handing them a upgraded version of a jet they already know how to do everything with (matinence and supply chain).

Also another factor here could be the growth mandate, keeping F-15 squadrons as F-15s and standing up new squadrons for new jets could be a easier growth option for the expansion over the next decade or so.

Against all of this good, but not at the loss of F-35's, PCA or B-21s

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 23 Dec 2018, 22:40

Fair play Mixelflick - on the face of it looks like a poor deal. I did note that cost is now less of a factor to the bloggers like Rogaway hyping up this potential slice of nostalgia.

The F-15X can do the air defence mission potentially at lower cost than an F-22A as stated above - which sounds great against lower tier threats and airliners but if looking at cost it certainly doesn't look anywhere near cheap enough especially cost to capability.

Fox seems pretty certain enough F-35s cannot be produced - he might need to explain a bit more. Presumably when enough are produced the F-15Xs can be replaced and sent to Saudi Arabia

Fox1 · by **Fox1** » 24 Dec 2018, 00:42

basher54321 wrote:Fox seems pretty certain enough F-35s cannot be produced - he might need to explain a bit more. Presumably when enough are produced the F-15Xs can be replaced and sent to Saudi Arabia

At the projected buy rate, it is going to take many, many years to replace everything that needs replacing with the F-35. I don't want to see our force structure erode any more than it already has as aging platforms are retired at a faster rate than they can be replaced by the F-35. My position is, I would rather buy the 2nd most advanced/capable platform currently in production as a complement to the F-35 (and to bulk up our numbers in a reasonable time frame) as opposed to waiting around for years to regain capability we'll otherwise have to do without in the near term.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 01:26

Honestly, this is just getting old. As the USAF has said over and over again they have "no" interest in the F-15X or any new model of the Eagle....(or any F-22/F-35 hybrid)

:doh:

QUOTE: In an exclusive Sept. 5 interview, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said she believes the service needs to expend its precious financial resources on stealthy, fifth-generation platforms — specifically the F-35 — and thus buying even an advanced fourth generation fighter like the so-called F-15X is not in the cards.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... lian-says/

juretrn · by **juretrn** » 24 Dec 2018, 01:32

I don't think air policing is supposed to be the primary mission for the -X.
I'd say it's mostly a missile truck for the stealthy ones. One with a really deep magazine, if Boeing is to be believed (how many AMRAAMs was it? 16?)

Having a fast interceptor force that isn't over 9000 years old is nice, too.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 01:36

The F-15X doesn't even exist..... :doh:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 01:41

Sorry, you can't even make a case for the F-15X. It would cost more and offer less performance in just about every respect. Also, 12 F-15X's wouldn't be enough for a single squadron. So, they would have to buy many many more. Anybody think the USAF for going to spend tens of billions for more Eagles. When the F-35 is far more capable and at a far lower price...

:doh:

chucky2 · by **chucky2** » 24 Dec 2018, 01:42

Maybe they're for Canada. We buy them now, until F-35 is procured in enough numbers to turn them down Stateside, and by then, the rehabbed F-18s from Australia Canada is purchasing will be shot so they'll need something else not F-35...and these would be able to be sold on relative cheap. Say, $65-$70M a plane. Sure it's going to need all new training and sh*t, but, it's not F-35. And, since it would be the US selling them it and not Boeing, no problems with competition between Boeing and Bombardier.

Do it....

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 02:11

Your not going to get any model of the F-15 for under $100 Million. Plus, I've seen no interest in Canada acquiring the F-15 Eagle. Plus, it would have to go thru the forthcoming "Fighter Competition" to even be considered. So, good lucking winning that....

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 02:12

This is just the usual "wild speculation" and nothing more. It has no basis in fact.....

Fox1 · by **Fox1** » 24 Dec 2018, 02:29

Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, this is just getting old. As the USAF has said over and over again they have "no" interest in the F-15X or any new model of the Eagle....(or any F-22/F-35 hybrid)

QUOTE: In an exclusive Sept. 5 interview, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said she believes the service needs to expend its precious financial resources on stealthy, fifth-generation platforms — specifically the F-35 — and thus buying even an advanced fourth generation fighter like the so-called F-15X is not in the cards.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... lian-says/

The Air Force will ultimately end up taking whatever the Pentagon tells them they'll be taking.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 03:17

Fox1 wrote:
The Air Force will ultimately end up taking whatever the Pentagon tells them they'll be taking.

You mean "Congress" and I've seen no such support for more F-15's. In addition who do you think has a bigger lobby and influence on Capital Hill Boeing or Lockheed Martin???

:doh:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 24 Dec 2018, 03:21

Also, the story says the USAF would order "12" F-15X's. This wouldn't be enough for a single squadron. So, the USAF would have to plan follow on orders of hundreds more. This would cost tens of billions more....

Honestly, this whole idea is absurd just surprising so many fall for it time and time again....

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 24 Dec 2018, 04:29

Guess who's acting DoD Chief?