F-15C the latest Eagle avionics update

[fighterjetsworld]

F-15C Golden Eagle the latest version of the Eagle responds to the needs of the USAF with respect to the threat posed by the Su-35S Flanker-E of the RuAF and the J-10B Vigorous Dragon of the PLAAF. Once again Boeing IDS is responsible for updating 179 F-15C MSIP II integrating the following:

Radar AN / APG-63 (v) 3 AESA : Synthetic aperture radar with electronic scanning of high resolution image. It consists of the AN / APG-63 (v) 2 improved with everything studied and learned from the AN / APG-79 AESA, including the antenna, software, resolution, etc.

[mixelflick]

Here's what I don't get: The USAF makes big upgrades to the F-15C. Great. However, in the same breath they're stating that the F-15C will be around until 2020, right around the corner? Or did I read that wrong?? I've also heard rumors they were going to shelve the F-15C for F-16's, or just put that $ into more F-35's.
....
The latter seems to be the most logical plan, but what to do with the F-15C... it sounds like air force leadership is all over the board...

[talkitron]

Here's what I don't get: The USAF makes big upgrades to the F-15C. Great. However, in the same breath they're stating that the F-15C will be around until 2020, right around the corner? Or did I read that wrong?? I've also heard rumors they were going to shelve the F-15C for F-16's, or just put that $ into more F-35's.

With the recent raising of the defense budget cap, I wouldn't worry as much about short term F-15C cuts. Most of these planes are in Air National Guard units that have strong support in Congress. There are three or four active duty F-15C squadrons and I don't know how soon those planes will be transferred out to the ANG as the F-35A comes online.

[talkitron]

Here is the Trump administration's 2019 proposed budget for major weapons systems. This is far from law. F-15's are budgeted at $1 billion, which means they aren't going away. The description is

"Continues the F-15E Radar Modernization Program (RMP), which replaces the legacy radar using existing technology from other aviation platforms and solves parts obsolescence problems to provide improved reliability and performance (increased synthetic aperture radar range and resolution), including air-to-air and air-to-ground modes. Continues the F-15 C/D radar upgrade program, which replaces the mechanically-scanned antenna on F-15C/D aircraft with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) and technology maturation efforts for the Eagle Passive/Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS) which is intended to improve F-15E survivability by enhancing the ability to detect, deny, or defeat air and ground threats. Continues the development of an Infrared Search and Track System intended to provide an air-to-air targeting capability in a radar denied environment."

By comparison, F-16 spending is not enough to be itemized as a major weapons system.

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/ ... eapons.pdf

[neptune]

.

- Continues the F-15E Radar Modernization Program (RMP) .on F-15C/D .
- technology maturation efforts for the Eagle Passive/Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS) which is intended to improve F-15E survivability by enhancing the ability to detect, deny, or defeat air and ground threats.
- Continues the development of an Infrared Search and Track System intended to provide an air-to-air targeting capability in a radar denied environment."..

.... will EPAWSS upgrades be shared with C/D?
... will IRST pods? be shared across all F-15s?

[magnum4469]

With only about 170 F-22s operational and considered a national asset it seems stupid to get rid of the F-15C/D. The Golden Eagle upgrades will make the F-15C/D viable until 2040 or later. The F-35 was never designed for the Air Superiority role. If the Air Force upgrades to the Golden Eagle and incorporates Fast Packs they will have an incredible fire power exceeding the F-22 in every aspect except stealth. A Golden Eagle with Fast Packs would be able to carry 16 AAM, I would want 14 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9Xs. Just think how much damage a 4 ship wall could do to anyone who dared oppose it. Who would want to go against 56 AMRAAMs and 8 AIM-9Xs???? The F-22 and F-35 would never have that capability...

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

A Golden Eagle with Fast Packs would be able to carry 16 AAM, I would want 14 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9Xs. Just think how much damage a 4 ship wall could do to anyone who dared oppose it. Who would want to go against 56 AMRAAMs and 8 AIM-9Xs???? The F-22 and F-35 would never have that capability...

Are you sure about that? Both F-22 and F-35 can/will carry 6 AMRAAMs internally. Both carry 2 Sidewinders. Both have four pylons that can carry two AMRAAMS each using twin racks only (unlike Eagle quad racks). 4 under each wing for 8 external AMRAAMs plus 6 internal AMRAAMs for 14 AMRAAMs and two AIM-9Xs, just like you want. They will still have a lower RCS than the Eagle in that configuration, they will have better ECM than the Eagle in that configuration, and the Raptor will be much faster than the Eagle in that configuration.

[nutshell]

That's a majestic spray n pray of missiles

[magnum4469]

A Golden Eagle with Fast Packs would be able to carry 16 AAM, I would want 14 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9Xs. Just think how much damage a 4 ship wall could do to anyone who dared oppose it. Who would want to go against 56 AMRAAMs and 8 AIM-9Xs???? The F-22 and F-35 would never have that capability...

Are you sure about that? Both F-22 and F-35 can/will carry 6 AMRAAMs internally. Both carry 2 Sidewinders. Both have four pylons that can carry two AMRAAMS each using twin racks only (unlike Eagle quad racks). 4 under each wing for 8 external AMRAAMs plus 6 internal AMRAAMs for 14 AMRAAMs and two AIM-9Xs, just like you want. They will still have a lower RCS than the Eagle in that configuration, they will have better ECM than the Eagle in that configuration, and the Raptor will be much faster than the Eagle in that configuration.

Yes they can be fitted with external pylons, the problem is that they give up all their stealth ability. The F-22 being a "National Asset" at over $500 million per aircraft and cost of over $150k per hour to operate I just don't see the AF command wanting to risk it in a non stealth mode. Hence my thinking that the Golden Eagle will fill a huge void that exists in the Air Superiority role for the next 20+ years. The Eagles are bought and paid for and with a upgrade will enhance the capabilities for the AF, the F-35 will take 15-20 years to complete the production and are being used to fill the strike roll from the retiring Vipers. Just seems to make common sense to me, but common sense doesn't always apply to big brother blue...

[zero-one]

Yes they can be fitted with external pylons, the problem is that they give up all their stealth ability. The F-22 being a "National Asset" at over $500 million per aircraft and cost of over $150k per hour to operate I just don't see the AF command wanting to risk it in a non stealth mode. Hence my thinking that the Golden Eagle will fill a huge void that exists in the Air Superiority role for the next 20+ years. The Eagles are bought and paid for and with a upgrade will enhance the capabilities for the AF, the F-35 will take 15-20 years to complete the production and are being used to fill the strike roll from the retiring Vipers. Just seems to make common sense to me, but common sense doesn't always apply to big brother blue...

I don't understand, the F-15 is not stealth no matter what it does,
so if stealth is the goal, then the F-15 simply won't be allowed to participate.

why is it not okay for a 5th gen to loose stealth but its okay for a 4th gen to not be stealth in the first place

if fire power is the goal and you need to turn the aircraft into a bomb truck, then the F-15, F-22 and F-35 can all fill that role.

so if the question is, CAN THE F-22 AND F-35 DO IT, then the answer is yes they can,

will they do it, then probably not, because of cost and because they are high value assets as you said.

[talkitron]

With only about 170 F-22s operational and considered a national asset it seems stupid to get rid of the F-15C/D. The Golden Eagle upgrades will make the F-15C/D viable until 2040 or later. The F-35 was never designed for the Air Superiority role.

The Air Force is not accelerating the F-35 buy but the current defense funding situation does not require premature retirements of F-15Cs, F-16s and A-10s. The question becomes what squadrons / air frames are retired to make room for the F-35 as it enters the combat coded squadrons in a natural way. I haven't seen an Air Force F-35 squadron/air frame conversion plan at the same level of detail that as the annual Marines aviation report. The goal of outside commentary should be to compare the F-15Cs to F-16s and A-10s, rather than to F-22s and F-35s.

[chucky2]

The Eagle is my favorite plane from an enthusiast POV, however, at the level the F-35 is dominating (if the exercises truly aren't rigged/gimped), it sort of begs the question if F-15 or F-16 is necessary at all, even in upgraded format.

Even an F-15E with the -229 engines, ADCP II computer, APG-82, EPAWSS, upgraded front and rear displays, JHMCS, would still have to carry a Talon HATE pod (unless part of the ADCP II ((and perhaps parts of EPAWSS)) is going to be trying to integrate that into the Eagle instead of underneath it), just to be considered a close equivalent of the F-35...no way to know if the Eagle stuff would be better than F-35 or not, but unless there's some effort going on to integrate everything going into F-15 like has been done on F-35, it all may match or exceed F-35 in technical terms but not in fusion terms.

At best it'll still be a good sized radar contact flying around with lots of armament vs a much smaller radar contact flying around with lots of armament, and as the armament is expended, the Eagle will still be a good sized radar contact while the F-35 becomes less and less visible as it would expend its external stores...at some point effectively becoming invisible again.

Given 3F, I still don't really understand why F-35A's aren't just replacing F-15C's. So they have to carry external tanks - those can be dropped when needed, leading to instant stealth. What is F-15C bringing at this point that F-35A isn't?

[botsing]

Yes they can be fitted with external pylons, the problem is that they give up all their stealth ability.

Do you really think that fitting external weapons on an F-35 will raise it's RCS to roughly the same size as a 4th gen?


We should have a "Common False Assumptions" thread for this kind of basic misunderstandings (garrya, please help! ).

p.s. This page on garrya's blog has a nice RCS example of an air-to-air missile:
https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavion ... -benefits/

[sferrin]

The F-22 being a "National Asset" at over $500 million per aircraft and cost of over $150k per hour to operate

You're f--king high.

[magnum4469]

The F-22 being a "National Asset" at over $500 million per aircraft and cost of over $150k per hour to operate

You're f--king high.

Look up the numbers dumbass...