AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 06:59
by neptune
http://www.janes.com/article/76200/turk ... -are-ready

Turkey seeks to buy Harriers as an interim measure until F-35Bs are ready

Kerry Herschelman
06 December 2017


Turkey has been seeking to buy an unknown number of Harrier fighters as a stop-gap measure until the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is ready for Turkish service, Jane’s has learned from reliable Turkish and Western defense industry sources. Jane’s earlier reported that Turkey had expressed to the United States its interest in purchasing 19-20 of the F-35B STOVL version. This is in addition to the 100 F-35As it already plans to buy from Lockheed Martin. Turkey first approached the United Kingdom about the purchase of Harriers but then turned to the United States for the AV-8B in the inventory of the US Marine Corps because the aircraft have not been used by the UK armed forces since 2010.
:)

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 07:11
by Corsair1963
neptune wrote:http://www.janes.com/article/76200/turkey-seeks-to-buy-harriers-as-an-interim-measure-until-f-35bs-are-ready

Turkey seeks to buy Harriers as an interim measure until F-35Bs are ready

Kerry Herschelman
06 December 2017


Turkey has been seeking to buy an unknown number of Harrier fighters as a stop-gap measure until the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is ready for Turkish service, Jane’s has learned from reliable Turkish and Western defense industry sources. Jane’s earlier reported that Turkey had expressed to the United States its interest in purchasing 19-20 of the F-35B STOVL version. This is in addition to the 100 F-35As it already plans to buy from Lockheed Martin. Turkey first approached the United Kingdom about the purchase of Harriers but then turned to the United States for the AV-8B in the inventory of the US Marine Corps because the aircraft have not been used by the UK armed forces since 2010.
:)


Honestly, this hardly makes sense at all??? First, I doubt the USMC would give up any of it's remaining AV-8B's in the short term. Second, it hardly just the Harriers themselves. It's everything associated with them from Spare Parts, Maintenance, Pilot and Ground Crew Training, Infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. Then by time you got that all in place. You would start all over again with the F-35B. Which, at least share much of the aforementioned with the Turkish Air Force F-35A's!

In short forget and just wait on the F-35B's! :wink:

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 08:05
by neptune
Corsair1963 wrote:...Honestly, this hardly makes sense at all??? First, I doubt the USMC would give up any of it's remaining AV-8B's in the short term. Second, it hardly just the Harriers themselves. It's everything associated with them from Spare Parts, Maintenance, Pilot and Ground Crew Training, Infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. Then by time you got that all in place. You would start all over again with the F-35B. Which, at least share much of the aforementioned with the Turkish Air Force F-35A's!

In short forget and just wait on the F-35B's! :wink:


....maybe, but ....if Turkey "Wants" to get into the jump-jet business, this is a cheap time to gather up a/c from England, Spain, India, Italy, US and determine what infrastructure is required and maybe get a head start on that ski-jump ship they are designing; if and when the F-35B "ever" delivers.

I'm beginning to see where Turkey is struggling to stay in NATO and benefit from the technologies shared by the NATO members and also placate their Muslim partners demands around the world. Erdogan is one "heck" of a juggler!
:wink:

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 08:21
by Corsair1963
neptune wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:...Honestly, this hardly makes sense at all??? First, I doubt the USMC would give up any of it's remaining AV-8B's in the short term. Second, it hardly just the Harriers themselves. It's everything associated with them from Spare Parts, Maintenance, Pilot and Ground Crew Training, Infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. Then by time you got that all in place. You would start all over again with the F-35B. Which, at least share much of the aforementioned with the Turkish Air Force F-35A's!

In short forget and just wait on the F-35B's! :wink:


....maybe, but ....if Turkey "Wants" to get into the jump-jet business, this is a cheap time to gather up a/c from England, Spain, India, Italy, US and determine what infrastructure is required and maybe get a head start on that ski-jump ship they are designing; if and when the F-35B "ever" delivers.

I'm beginning to see where Turkey is struggling to stay in NATO and benefit from the technologies shared by the NATO members and also placate their Muslim partners demands around the world. Erdogan is one "heck" of a juggler!
:wink:


Honestly, acquiring second hand Harriers would be expensive and time consuming. Hardly, worth it when Turkey is already getting F-35A's for the Turkish Air Force.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 17:30
by XanderCrews
Don't know if it will ever happen, but it goes to show turkey takes the endeavor seriously. They're willing to put in the money time and effort

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 05:40
by neptune
XanderCrews wrote:Don't know if it will ever happen, but it goes to show turkey takes the endeavor seriously. They're willing to put in the money time and effort


.... Serious is the theme. Turkey will have the boat and Harriers, at least. The Sunnis will eventually meet the Shias and hopefully before they unstabilize more Mid-East governments. The Duo of Russia and Iran will expand their influence, unless NATO stops their game, with Turkey. Russia and Iran are playing each other as the Dunce and creating as much desolation as possible as exemplified by Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen. Libya, etc. Turkey with the F-35A/B has a long way to go to win back these stable governments (hopefully democratic republics) with the assistance of allies. NATO can support this effort or it can sit on the sidelines and have no influence.
:|

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 07:52
by weasel1962
Its a difficult and different calculus with the Trump decision to declare Jerusalem. Politics always play a part in military buys. Turkey can be expected to think twice or use a buy rejection (even if they were never going to) as a way to show some reaction. I think the Saudis and the rest who have spent billions on US military buys would find that their regimes become the targets for Iranian propaganda. Particularly easy to inflame when it comes to religion. Again the big winner is Israel since any de-stabilisation of Arab states play directly into its hands. Syria = down. Egypt = down. Iraq = down. Jordan and Lebanon = too weak to matter. Israel hasn’t been too comfortable with the big Saudi buys. Next up is the Iranian nuclear deal which would be cancelled and sanctions reimposed. 40 years of diplomacy down the drain but this is trump world now.

I would be very surprised if the Harrier deal actually goes thru.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 01:08
by airforces_freak
Turkey has 2 LHD/Light Carrier programs and is also in the process of purchasing HMS Ocean (See https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2017 ... er-carrier ).

The TCG Anadolu class LHD/Light Carrier being built by Sedef Shipyards can operate upto 24 S/VTOL aircraft.

TCG Anadolu should be commissioned in late 2019. Turkey does not believe it will have time to acquire the F-35B's in time.

In any case it would be quite expensive to purchase 24 x 3 batches of F-35B's for the 3 LHD programs. Thus, it is most likely that Turkey will acquire used Harrier's from Spain, Italy and the US to use on HMS Ocean and TCG Anadolu.

On top of all this Turkey is seeking to project power abroad in a bid to protect its bases in Qatar and Somalia.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 04:33
by neptune
airforces_freak wrote:Turkey has 2 LHD/Light Carrier programs and is also in the process of purchasing HMS Ocean (See https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2017 ... er-carrier ).

The TCG Anadolu class LHD/Light Carrier being built by Sedef Shipyards can operate upto 24 S/VTOL aircraft.

TCG Anadolu should be commissioned in late 2019. Turkey does not believe it will have time to acquire the F-35B's in time.

In any case it would be quite expensive to purchase 24 x 3 batches of F-35B's for the 3 LHD programs. Thus, it is most likely that Turkey will acquire used Harrier's from Spain, Italy and the US to use on HMS Ocean and TCG Anadolu.

On top of all this Turkey is seeking to project power abroad in a bid to protect its bases in Qatar and Somalia.


....The USMC could have as many as 32 AV-8Bs (2 ex-squadrons) available for sale, not counting the Brit Harriers/ parts.
:)

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 05:34
by weasel1962
neptune wrote:....The USMC could have as many as 32 AV-8Bs (2 ex-squadrons) available for sale, not counting the Brit Harriers/ parts. :)


(a) The USMC is struggling to get 66 AV-8B ready basic airframes even with the current inventories and only managed to get close due to the GR-7 acquisition (68000 parts used from the airframes since acquisition = UK harriers aren't flyable).
(b) The USMC needs to maintain 93 AV-8B PAA for the FRS & 5 VMFA sqn + additional 13 TAV-8B for the FRS sqn against a current inventory of 112 AV-8B+16 TAV-8B.

The earliest I can see availability is in FY21-22 when 2 sqns will convert. If USMC is going to buy more Bs to bring forward conversion, the Turks might as well buy more Bs now to meet their needs. Buying F-35Bs now will mean delivery from FY 20 onwards.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 21:25
by XanderCrews
weasel1962 wrote:
neptune wrote:....The USMC could have as many as 32 AV-8Bs (2 ex-squadrons) available for sale, not counting the Brit Harriers/ parts. :)


(a) The USMC is struggling to get 66 AV-8B ready basic airframes even with the current inventories and only managed to get close due to the GR-7 acquisition (68000 parts used from the airframes since acquisition = UK harriers aren't flyable).
(b) The USMC needs to maintain 93 AV-8B PAA for the FRS & 5 VMFA sqn + additional 13 TAV-8B for the FRS sqn against a current inventory of 112 AV-8B+16 TAV-8B.

The earliest I can see availability is in FY21-22 when 2 sqns will convert. If USMC is going to buy more Bs to bring forward conversion, the Turks might as well buy more Bs now to meet their needs. Buying F-35Bs now will mean delivery from FY 20 onwards.



I don't see the Marines giving up any airframe that has not been picked cleaned of parts, isnt beat to hell, or doesn't have the latest upgrades to include safety upgrades.

Turks would literally get the leftovers of the leftovers. Marines still need to stretch harriers to 2030 at least

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 03:19
by airforces_freak
Turkey is going to modernize/upgrade them in any instance so it would take any airframe it can.

I even suspect that Turkey may want to inspect them in order to explore a S/VTOL version of the TF-X or even HurJET in future. Who knows.

What we know is that Turkey will field 2 LHD/Light Carriers and possibly 1 LHD (ex HMS Ocean) and needs S/VTOL aircraft. To date it has only evinced an intention to purchase 22 F-35B's.

Turkish Defence officials confirmed on Twitter in July that TCG Anadolu was already on the slipway. It should thus be complete by late 2019.

Image

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 04:48
by XanderCrews
airforces_freak wrote:Turkey is going to modernize/upgrade them in any instance so it would take any airframe it can.



Good luck with that!! lol


the airframes will be toast not to mention the lack of spares and the engines havnt been made in decades.

But I know you will ignore this and waive the ottoman magical money wand and the problems will disappear!

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 11:33
by airforces_freak
Once upon a time the same was said about the F-4E's.

They were modernised for air-to-ground role as the Terminator 2020 and continue to serve in the Turkish Air Force...

Image

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 13:34
by weasel1962
Turkey started buying F-4s since the 70s. That's totally different from integrating a vstol aircraft that has already ended production.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 20:08
by XanderCrews
airforces_freak wrote:Once upon a time the same was said about the F-4E's.

They were modernised for air-to-ground role as the Terminator 2020 and continue to serve in the Turkish Air Force...

Image


Lol who said you couldn't modernize F-4s? Lol

Israel Korea and Japan have been doing that for years too.

Very Ottoman magic such wow.

Harrier would be a completely different story.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 02:02
by airforces_freak
AFAIK, US stormtroopers AV-8B Harrier II's have been modernized with the Link 16, AIM-120 AMRAAM, helmet-mounted target designation system and multi-mode pulse-Doppler radar AN/APG-65. They are intended to extend the aircraft service life to 2030.

With structural modifications I am sure Turkey can extend their service life another 5 years.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 06:59
by weasel1962
Its not about structural mods nor upgrades. Its about parts to keep the aircraft flying when the manufacturers are no longer around and those parts are no longer being manufactured. That’s exactly the consequence when the British sold their fleet and no longer supports the Harriers. Now all 3 fleets (USMC, Spanish and Italian) are all supported by Boeing under HISS which is a maintenance only contract (which incidentally expires in 2024).

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 20:54
by XanderCrews
weasel1962 wrote:Its not about structural mods nor upgrades. Its about parts to keep the aircraft flying when the manufacturers are no longer around and those parts are no longer being manufactured. That’s exactly the consequence when the British sold their fleet and no longer supports the Harriers. Now all 3 fleets (USMC, Spanish and Italian) are all supported by Boeing under HISS which is a maintenance only contract (which incidentally expires in 2024).


Yep. Plus the training pipeline is going to dry up among other problems.


Why on earth is air forces freak determined to tell us the turks will spend billions to keep old harriers flying to a 2035 date when F-35Bs have already been in service 20 years?

That seems extremely stupid. Which of course means I hope they try it.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 02:33
by nutshell
Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 03:03
by weasel1962
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


You do realise that the TuAF have already started buying F-35s with deliveries starting next year... God help those hospitals and schools in sicily.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 10:58
by airforces_freak
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


You need to take that WWI cap off your head. Turkey has no intention of bombing Sovereign States especially its allies such as Italy. The TuAF is there for defensive purposes.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 13:32
by hythelday
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


I think you meant to say Cyprus, not Sicily.

I give this thread a "highly vulnerable to shitposting, with negative forecast" rating and have already instructed my assets manager to liquidate any involvement in it.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 14:32
by tincansailor
airforces_freak wrote:
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


You need to take that WWI cap off your head. Turkey has no intention of bombing Sovereign States especially its allies such as Italy. The TuAF is there for defensive purposes.



With Turkey leaving NATO and allying with Russia who knows what they'll do. At this point the Turks only plan on killing Kurds, but the situation could get out of control. Joining Russia, and Iran will put Turkey at odds with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel. If turkey leaves NATO you once suggested the American nuclear warheads stored in Turkey really belong to them. On the way out will you try to take control of them? You do understand that the Americans would use force to get them back? Turkey must never be allowed to take possession of the F-35.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 15:09
by XanderCrews
airforces_freak wrote:
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


You need to take that WWI cap off your head. Turkey has no intention of bombing Sovereign States especially its allies such as Italy. The TuAF is there for defensive purposes.


Lol you are contradicting your other troll posts

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 15:10
by XanderCrews
tincansailor wrote:Turkey must never be allowed to take possession of the F-35.


I've got some bad news

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 00:23
by airforces_freak
XanderCrews wrote:
airforces_freak wrote:
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


You need to take that WWI cap off your head. Turkey has no intention of bombing Sovereign States especially its allies such as Italy. The TuAF is there for defensive purposes.


Lol you are contradicting your other troll posts


Can you please point me to the post where I purportedly said Turkey intended to bomb Italy?

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 00:28
by airforces_freak
tincansailor wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(

With Turkey leaving NATO and allying with Russia who knows what they'll do. At this point the Turks only plan on killing Kurds, but the situation could get out of control. Joining Russia, and Iran will put Turkey at odds with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel. If turkey leaves NATO you once suggested the American nuclear warheads stored in Turkey really belong to them. On the way out will you try to take control of them? You do understand that the Americans would use force to get them back? Turkey must never be allowed to take possession of the F-35.
[/quote][/quote]

Turkey couldn't care less about the B-61 tactical nukes (Less than 50 kt- CAT F) at Incirlik AF base. Everyone in the intelligence community knows that Saudi Arabia and Turkey have access to Pakistani Nukes.

In any event if Turkey is allied with Russia it comes under the Russian nuclear umbrella.

Turkey currently also produces many conventional ballistic missiles under the guise of an indigenous satellite launch capability. This includes MIRV technology. It's indigenously designed and developed MILDEN submarines also have land attack capability. In summary Turkey's conventional deterrence capability does not even need it to go nuclear.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 04:57
by tincansailor
Turkey couldn't care less about the B-61 tactical nukes (Less than 50 kt- CAT F) at Incirlik AF base. Everyone in the intelligence community knows that Saudi Arabia and Turkey have access to Pakistani Nukes.

In any event if Turkey is allied with Russia it comes under the Russian nuclear umbrella.

Turkey currently also produces many conventional ballistic missiles under the guise of an indigenous satellite launch capability. This includes MIRV technology. It's indigenously designed and developed MILDEN submarines also have land attack capability. In summary Turkey's conventional deterrence capability does not even need it to go nuclear.

[/quote]

That's not what you used to say. 50 kt is hardly a tactical nuclear weapon. The bombs dropped at the end of WWII were between 15-20 kt. I'd ask you the same question I'd ask a North Korean, have you tested a reentry vehicle? NK also got nuclear technology from Pakistan, via the A Q, Khan network, but they didn't get reentry technology.

Being allied with Russian doesn't mean a nuclear umbrella. Every U.S. ally isn't so covered. You'll have to come to a special arrangement with Russia to have that level of security. That's not something granted lightly. MILDEN Class? That's still in it's early design phase. It's not even scheduled to start construction till 2028, and won't be in commission till 2033.

Erdogan is becoming the Mussolini of the 21st century. Turkey must never have the F-35, or nuclear weapons.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 11:10
by airforces_freak
tincansailor wrote:
Turkey couldn't care less about the B-61 tactical nukes (Less than 50 kt- CAT F) at Incirlik AF base. Everyone in the intelligence community knows that Saudi Arabia and Turkey have access to Pakistani Nukes.

In any event if Turkey is allied with Russia it comes under the Russian nuclear umbrella.

Turkey currently also produces many conventional ballistic missiles under the guise of an indigenous satellite launch capability. This includes MIRV technology. It's indigenously designed and developed MILDEN submarines also have land attack capability. In summary Turkey's conventional deterrence capability does not even need it to go nuclear.



That's not what you used to say. 50 kt is hardly a tactical nuclear weapon. The bombs dropped at the end of WWII were between 15-20 kt. I'd ask you the same question I'd ask a North Korean, have you tested a reentry vehicle? NK also got nuclear technology from Pakistan, via the A Q, Khan network, but they didn't get reentry technology.

Being allied with Russian doesn't mean a nuclear umbrella. Every U.S. ally isn't so covered. You'll have to come to a special arrangement with Russia to have that level of security. That's not something granted lightly. MILDEN Class? That's still in it's early design phase. It's not even scheduled to start construction till 2028, and won't be in commission till 2033.

Erdogan is becoming the Mussolini of the 21st century. Turkey must never have the F-35, or nuclear weapons.


Pakistan has MIRV technology.

See https://www.dawn.com/news/1310630
https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/why-pak ... y-matters/

What Pakistan has Turkey and Saudi Arabia have.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 12:44
by mixelflick
.[/quote]

Pakistan has MIRV technology.

See https://www.dawn.com/news/1310630
https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/why-pak ... y-matters/

What Pakistan has Turkey and Saudi Arabia have.[/quote]

If that's true, can the Israeli F-35 strike on these weapons be far behind??

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 18:03
by neptune
mixelflick wrote:.


Pakistan has MIRV technology.

See https://www.dawn.com/news/1310630
https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/why-pak ... y-matters/

What Pakistan has Turkey and Saudi Arabia have.[/quote]

If that's true, can the Israeli F-35 strike on these weapons be far behind??[/quote]

....perhaps,...Not! Should the leaders of these nation states consider proclaiming to have weapons "to eradicate Israel from the face of the earth", maybe; then otherwise, No. But there are national leaders not included in your group!
:(

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2017, 18:04
by neptune
Duplicate Comments deleted
:(

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2017, 00:18
by airforces_freak
mixelflick wrote:
If that's true, can the Israeli F-35 strike on these weapons be far behind??


Israeli F-35's bombing Turkey or Pakistan is virtually impossible due to the complex defence ties between Pakistan and China and Turkey and Russia. In fact, some European nations would even object to an Israeli strike on Turkey.

With Turkey's layered air defence systems that consists of the S-400, EUROSAM, HISAR-A, HISAR-O and HISAR-U it would be much harder for Israel in any event to conduct SEAD/DEAD missions in Turkey.

Leaving all this aside Turkey has the geographic advantage over Israel and can retaliate very harshly.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2017, 00:52
by nutshell
hythelday wrote:
nutshell wrote:Its a good idea.

I'd hate the idea of the F35 popping its cherry by bombing some hospitals or schools in Sicily by the hands of some TuAF pilots :(


I think you meant to say Cyprus, not Sicily.

I give this thread a "highly vulnerable to shitposting, with negative forecast" rating and have already instructed my assets manager to liquidate any involvement in it.


No mate, we had the arrogance to investigate the caliph's son and we still host the pope.

I can already feel a 5th gen dagger in my back, near the spine.

We doomed, we gotta deal with it.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2017, 12:24
by airforces_freak
Nutshell, you do realise Mr. Erdogan's best friend is Silvio Berlusconi??

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2017, 14:46
by mixelflick
I was referring moreso to an Israeli airstrike on Saudi Arabia. Unless I'm reading this wrong, they now have nukes? And if that's the case, they're just another Arab nation with nukes that Israel needs to contend with.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2017, 17:59
by nutshell
airforces_freak wrote:Nutshell, you do realise Mr. Erdogan's best friend is Silvio Berlusconi??


And so is Putin, problem is that Silvio is no longer relevant politically speaking.

#donateAEGIStoItaly

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 03:58
by XanderCrews
Air forces freak is here to tell us all kinds of silly crap about Turkey's amazing conventional forces even though the Turks are a joke throughout NATO. That coup was hilarious. Watching civilians abuse previously armed soldiers. Couldn't even get the targeting right on that.

About how the mighty F-4 was unupgradeable until the Turks.

This guy can't get basic details right. Anything complex is rife with contradiction and double speak

Every thread has to walk away from the details of the Turks ability to.fight and devolve to politics.

I know the harrier pretty well. Watching this mouth breather tell me about crap he's clueless about has been spellbinding

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 04:09
by arian
Going to need to base STOVL fighters in Turkey's new possessions in Aleppo. Not enough airfields in Aleppo, so STOVL makes sense.

Wait...what's that? Turkey didn't get Aleppo? I was promised by dipshitfreak that Aleppo was going to be gifted to them by Mr. Putin. They pinky swore on it.

Oh well. Won't need STOVL planes anyway now that Turkey will be basing its aircraft carriers with rail guns in Albania.

Wait...don't tell me that didn't happen either!

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 15:23
by XanderCrews
arian wrote:Going to need to base STOVL fighters in Turkey's new possessions in Aleppo. Not enough airfields in Aleppo, so STOVL makes sense.

Wait...what's that? Turkey didn't get Aleppo? I was promised by dipshitfreak that Aleppo was going to be gifted to them by Mr. Putin. They pinky swore on it.

Oh well. Won't need STOVL planes anyway now that Turkey will be basing its aircraft carriers with rail guns in Albania.

Wait...don't tell me that didn't happen either!



It's just a trustworthy NATO nation with purely defensive intent, that wants to ally with Russia and buy more military hardware for its expansionist goals.


What's so hard to understand about that :)

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 21:56
by arian
XanderCrews wrote:It's just a trustworthy NATO nation with purely defensive intent, that wants to ally with Russia and buy more military hardware for its expansionist goals.

What's so hard to understand about that :)


I remember when dipshitfreak...threatened...us that since a Turkish manufacturer did the final assembly of the screens going into the F-35's cockpit, that Turkey could put a virus inside all F-35s and render them all useless. So we better be nice and good to the Ottoman Sultan. :roll: Cause that's how viruses and LCD screen assembly works.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 01:44
by airforces_freak
arian wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:It's just a trustworthy NATO nation with purely defensive intent, that wants to ally with Russia and buy more military hardware for its expansionist goals.

What's so hard to understand about that :)


I remember when dipshitfreak...threatened...us that since a Turkish manufacturer did the final assembly of the screens going into the F-35's cockpit, that Turkey could put a virus inside all F-35s and render them all useless. So we better be nice and good to the Ottoman Sultan. :roll: Cause that's how viruses and LCD screen assembly works.


And the butt hurt nationalistic Armenian troll is back....how about you quote or direct us to where I purportedly made the threatening statements.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 01:47
by airforces_freak
XanderCrews wrote:
arian wrote:Going to need to base STOVL fighters in Turkey's new possessions in Aleppo. Not enough airfields in Aleppo, so STOVL makes sense.

Wait...what's that? Turkey didn't get Aleppo? I was promised by dipshitfreak that Aleppo was going to be gifted to them by Mr. Putin. They pinky swore on it.

Oh well. Won't need STOVL planes anyway now that Turkey will be basing its aircraft carriers with rail guns in Albania.

Wait...don't tell me that didn't happen either!



It's just a trustworthy NATO nation with purely defensive intent, that wants to ally with Russia and buy more military hardware for its expansionist goals.


What's so hard to understand about that :)


Did you think Turkey was going to sit around while its so-called NATO allies were seeking to carve Kurdish Statelets out of Turkey? Arms terrorists organisations that conduct suicide bombings in Turkish cities? Kill Turkish citizens abroad? Can you tell me why the YPG needed MANPADS in the fight against ISIS? What combat aircraft does ISIS have?

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 03:10
by arian
airforces_freak wrote:And the butt hurt nationalistic Armenian troll is back....how about you quote or direct us to where I purportedly made the threatening statements.


Don't worry, it wasn't very threatening. More like comedic.

Did you think Turkey was going to sit around while its so-called NATO allies were seeking to carve Kurdish Statelets out of Turkey?


Already done. LOL. And yes, you are going to sit around and watch the Kurds create their state in Syria. You got screwed by everyone. L O L

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 04:29
by madrat
Kurds are people, too. Funny how most of the world has renounced past atrocities against indigenous populations. How is Turkey coming along with that? Never mind the constant human trafficking conducted across the European continent by Turkish gangs. Never mind the constant smuggling of small arms by Turkish operatives during the Balkans crisis. It sucks for them that they endure the bed they made for themselves.

If it was up to me I'd only export stuff to them that burnt a hole in their wallets for marginal gains. True allies don't act abusively. And for damn sure they don't sleep with the enemy.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 17:43
by KamenRiderBlade
arian wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:It's just a trustworthy NATO nation with purely defensive intent, that wants to ally with Russia and buy more military hardware for its expansionist goals.

What's so hard to understand about that :)


I remember when dipshitfreak...threatened...us that since a Turkish manufacturer did the final assembly of the screens going into the F-35's cockpit, that Turkey could put a virus inside all F-35s and render them all useless. So we better be nice and good to the Ottoman Sultan. :roll: Cause that's how viruses and LCD screen assembly works.
Why do we need Turkey to make the LCD Screens?

We should make it back here in the Good Ole USA.

There's nothing about the technology that can't be done here.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 21:41
by arian
KamenRiderBlade wrote:Why do we need Turkey to make the LCD Screens?

We should make it back here in the Good Ole USA.

There's nothing about the technology that can't be done here.


The screens are made by L3 Technologies, if I recall correctly. L3 has some assembly plants in Turkey, so since the work on F-35 was supposed to be divided also among "partner" countries, some work had to go to Turkey too. They basically just assemble the components made elsewhere. They don't actually make anything. The contract is minuscule since its just assembly work.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 02:45
by airforces_freak
Wishful thinking once again Arian:

Someone doesn’t understand plain English phrases like developing and sole source supplier.

Direct from the JSF project office- https://www.f35.com/global/participatio ... ticipation

Below are details on the 10 Turkish companies who have supported the development and/or production of F-35 / F135.

• Alp Aviation has been supporting the program since 2004 and currently manufactures F-35 production airframe structure and assemblies, production landing gear components and over 100 F135 production engine parts to include titanium integrated blade rotors.
Aselsan is developing manufacturing approaches for advanced optical components, which are part of the F-35 Electro Optical Targeting System. They are also working with Northrup Grumman on the F-35 CNI Avionic Interface Controller and will initiate full scale production activities in the near term.
Ayesas currently is the sole source supplier for two major F-35 components – missile remote interface unit and the panoramic cockpit display.
• Fokker Elmo manufactures 40 percent of the F-35 Electrical Wiring & Interconnection System (EWIS) and will also deliver and support TAI with all center section wiring systems. Fokker Elmo is also developing the EWIS for the F135 engine, for which a major share is produced in Fokker Elmo Turkey in Izmir.
• Havelsan has been supporting the F-35 training systems since 2005. Additionally, Havelsan has been instrumental as the Turkish lead for developing the construct of the future Turkish F-35 Integrated Pilot and Maintenance Training Center (ITC) and associated training systems in Turkey.
• Kale Aerospace has been supporting the F-35 since 2005. In conjunction with Turkish Aerospace Industries, they manufacture and produce F-35 airframe structures and assemblies. Kale Aero also supports Heroux Devtek as the sole source supplier for all three variants landing gear up lock assemblies. Additionally, Kale Aerospace has also established a joint venture in Izmir with Pratt & Whitney and is manufacturing production hardware for the F135 engine.
• MiKES has supported the F-35 Program during SDD delivering F-35 aircraft components and assemblies for BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman
ROKETSAN and Tubitak-SAGE are the Turkish joint leadership team who strategically manage the development, integration, and production of the advanced precision-guided Stand-off Missile (SOM-J) which will be carried internally on the 5th Generation F-35 aircraft. Additionally, Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control has partnered with Roketsan, through a teaming agreement, to jointly develop, produce, market and sell the advanced, precision guided Stand Off Missile – Joint Strike Fighter (SOM-J).
• Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) has been strategically supporting the F-35 Program since 2008. The company currently supplies production hardware that goes into every F-35 production aircraft. In conjunction with Northrup Grumman, TAI manufactures and assembles the center fuselages, produces composite skins and weapon bay doors, and manufactures fiber placement composite air inlet ducts. Additionally, TAI is strategically manufacturing 45 percent of the F-35’s including Air-to-Ground Pylons and adapters which is Alternate Mission Equipment (AME).

Additionally, Turkish Industry are going to have significant Industrial Participation role supporting Lockheed Martin and Pratt and Whitney for F-35 aircraft sustainment and F135 engine production and sustainment. Turkey has been given the approval to build its own F135 engines and was also selected to have the first European Regional F135 Engine depot overhaul capability. Both the engine production and overhaul will take place at the 1st HIBM in Eskisehir. Additionally, TAI has also been assigned to represent the organic depots of the Turkish Armed Forces within the Autonomic Logistic Global Sustainment (ALGS) system and Havelsan has been assigned as the Turkish Integrator for the National Integrated Training Center (ITC).



Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 04:48
by arian
Dipshitfreak, we've already had this conversation. Ayesas is a subsidiary of L-3 technologies and the contract involves final assembly. I've actually read the details of the contract, because unlike you, I have a functioning brain.

Ayesas is an assembler. It doesn't have the facilities or capability to produce any of the parts. You can go to their website and see.

Also, LOL: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/elbit-t ... s-for-f-35

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 07:32
by airforces_freak
Once again you limit your response to one company mentioned in the list and seek to also distort the facts to suit your preconceived narrative.

AYDIN YAZILIM ve ELEKTRONİK SANAYİ A.Ş. is not a subsidiary of L3 Communications but rather a 60:40 joint-venture between Zorlu Holding Defence and L3 Communications with Zorlu being majority shareholder- http://www.ayesas.com/en/corporate

Ayesas is "sole supplier" for circuit card assemblies in the missile remote interface unit and the panoramic cockpit display unit.
http://www.ayesas.com/en/solutions/elec ... assemblies

CCAs of the electronic unit of F-35 (JSF) Panoramic Cockpit Display since 2007 as a single source for the whole program and for all three variants of the aircraft as the subcontractor to L-3 Display Systems, the USA.


CCAs of the F-35 (JSF) Missile Remote Interface Unit. AYESAŞ was involved to this project at the system design and development (SDD) phase in 2004, where it was part of the mechanical and electronic design and development activities. AYESAŞ is the single source supplier for the circuit card assemblies as well as the chassis of the MRIU since 2007.


That is, all F-35's contain circuit card assemblies produced in Turkey!

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 20:22
by tincansailor
airforces-freak the United states created this technology, don't you think we could build them ourselves, if we had to? Losing part of a supply chain is an inconvenience, that costs time, and money, it doesn't end a program. Any country from Israel to Thailand could pickup the contract. Erdogan's Turkey is nearing a parting of the ways with NATO, and the West in general. I only hope Congress comes to it's senses before any F-35s are delivered to the new Sultanate. If we don't turkey will be handing over F-35s for Russian, and Chinese inspection.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 22:43
by mas
Interesting comments from the Israeli defense minister about Turkey as it seems one of its F-35 allies has had enough of it. Just over a year to go until the first F-35 is delivered to it ...

https://www.rt.com/news/413569-ping-pong-israel-hamas/

The defense minister also claims that Turkey has been tacitly supporting Hamas, and that "we should revisit all our ties" with Ankara, to sever any dependence from Turkey and to discontinue a proposed gas project with Ankara which would give a "key to our whole gas pipeline" and Israel's energy security to Erdogan - a situation which would have "far-reaching consequences."

Lieberman also believes that the previous rapprochement with Turkey was a mistake, as Turkey cannot be trusted. He said he does not “believe a single word from Erdogan,” who has been issuing threats and uses all possible pretexts - such as Trump’s Jerusalem decision - for open hostility towards Israel.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2017, 00:44
by arian
airforces_freak wrote:Once again you limit your response to one company mentioned in the list and seek to also distort the facts to suit your preconceived narrative.

AYDIN YAZILIM ve ELEKTRONİK SANAYİ A.Ş. is not a subsidiary of L3 Communications but rather a 60:40 joint-venture between Zorlu Holding Defence and L3 Communications with Zorlu being majority shareholder- http://www.ayesas.com/en/corporate

Ayesas is "sole supplier" for circuit card assemblies in the missile remote interface unit and the panoramic cockpit display unit.
http://www.ayesas.com/en/solutions/elec ... assemblies

CCAs of the electronic unit of F-35 (JSF) Panoramic Cockpit Display since 2007 as a single source for the whole program and for all three variants of the aircraft as the subcontractor to L-3 Display Systems, the USA.


CCAs of the F-35 (JSF) Missile Remote Interface Unit. AYESAŞ was involved to this project at the system design and development (SDD) phase in 2004, where it was part of the mechanical and electronic design and development activities. AYESAŞ is the single source supplier for the circuit card assemblies as well as the chassis of the MRIU since 2007.



Again, you're not bright enough to understand the concept of assembly. These companies do the final assembly of components produced elsewhere.

You're not even bright enough to go to the company's website and see what their advertised capabilities are.

That is, all F-35's contain circuit card assemblies produced in Turkey!


All F-35s contain components produced or assembled in over 50 countries. :roll:

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2017, 01:53
by nutshell
airforces_freak wrote:
Can you tell me why the YPG needed MANPADS in the fight against ISIS? What combat aircraft does ISIS have?


...turkish F16s?


Couldnt resist. Sry.

Re: AV-8B Boeing Harrier II 2017

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2018, 04:32
by weasel1962
https://www.janes.com/article/85013/usm ... i-aircraft

Looks like the marines are keen to squeeze every ounce of utility out of the harrier. RFP for HMCS (without the J) to be installed by 2023 for canning in 2026?