SU-57: On hold for a decade

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 24 Sep 2019, 21:33

southerncross wrote:It is unknown to me to what level modern fighters can be used from damaged or unprepared runways, but by simple observation the following characteristics on Russian planes are apparent and should derive from specific operational requirements:
- Over-dimensioned main landing gear
- Twin wheel nose landing gear
- Mud guards
- FOD screens at the intakes (unknown to me for Su-57)
- STOL design (only claimed for Su-57)
- Landing chute incl. deployment before touch.down
- Alternative intakes (MiG-29)

I am not sure how NATO prepares for the possibility of their bases being damaged, for instance braking chutes are not a standard equipment but they have arresting hooks AFAIK. In general I agree that in general Western fighters seem less rugged, this is particularly apparent for sizing and layout of the landing gear. Also some special needs re. fuel cooling, dependence on remote servers, length of TO run and coating maintenance may pose difficulties under less than optimal basing conditions.

My experience with most Russian, USSR stuff is anything beyond AKs and tractors aren't going to be too reliable.

I don't know what the definition of "rugged" is. I know western engines have far less trouble and more TBO too. I never understood the clashing narratives. maybe everyone thinks AKs just apply to everything, and yet Russian stuff breaks far more frequently in my experience. just done. kapoot.

maybe it varies, I don't know. Maybe somethings are super reliable, and others not.but its an interesting idea that some things are more "rugged" yet less reliable, an other things are less "rugged" yet more reliable.

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 25 Sep 2019, 14:00

According to this Indian pilot, the Mig-29 was quite reliable and rugged - https://hushkit.net/2019/09/07/the-mig- ... ter-pilot/

I'd agree also with many of Southerncross's observations; The undercarriage, braking chutes, mud guards, intake design of most Russian designs speaks to a more robust short/un-prepared field operations. Yet, all of that wasn't enough to allow Iraqi aircraft to operate from bombed out, then repaired airfields in Desert Storm. Perhaps they didn't have dispersed and/or "alternative" airfields to deploy to. In that conflict, it seemed we just destroyed many of their aircraft on the ground. End of problem.

NATO for its part at least considered (part) of the problem: Zero length launch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75qnxMd1YSY. This had to be an absolutely terrifying experience for the pilot, lol. Of course, where this Starfighter would land is the other half of the problem. Never saw a solution for that..

southerncross · by **southerncross** » 25 Sep 2019, 16:09

mixelflick wrote:NATO for its part at least considered (part) of the problem: Zero length launch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75qnxMd1YSY. This had to be an absolutely terrifying experience for the pilot, lol. Of course, where this Starfighter would land is the other half of the problem. Never saw a solution for that..

Hahaha, I don't think I have ever seen a crazier stunt than this one! The nervous laughters of the people after the pilot escapes alive say it all :cheers:

Russia suffered such unthinkable levels of attrition throughout so many wars that designing for it seems to have turned part of their DNA. One struggles to see how a conflict could escalate to the point of not leaving one usable road or runway in the European theater before things go nuclear, but still they seem to perceive the need. Most of their conventional posture follows that logic, with big numbers of tanks and artillery and Su-34s being probably now the most numerous planes in their inventory.

falcon.16 · by **falcon.16** » 26 Sep 2019, 00:24

mixelflick wrote:According to this Indian pilot, the Mig-29 was quite reliable and rugged - https://hushkit.net/2019/09/07/the-mig- ... ter-pilot/

I'd agree also with many of Southerncross's observations; The undercarriage, braking chutes, mud guards, intake design of most Russian designs speaks to a more robust short/un-prepared field operations. Yet, all of that wasn't enough to allow Iraqi aircraft to operate from bombed out, then repaired airfields in Desert Storm. Perhaps they didn't have dispersed and/or "alternative" airfields to deploy to. In that conflict, it seemed we just destroyed many of their aircraft on the ground. End of problem.

NATO for its part at least considered (part) of the problem: Zero length launch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75qnxMd1YSY. This had to be an absolutely terrifying experience for the pilot, lol. Of course, where this Starfighter would land is the other half of the problem. Never saw a solution for that..

India rejects Russian MiG-29 fighter jets due to constant malfunctions
https://www.uawire.org/india-rejects-ru ... lfunctions

southerncross · by **southerncross** » 26 Sep 2019, 10:20

falcon.16 wrote:India rejects Russian MiG-29 fighter jets due to constant malfunctions
https://www.uawire.org/india-rejects-ru ... lfunctions

Please, think twice before posting outright disinformation. All that crap about the 29K was debunked, was never sourced to start with, and the site's profile is basically bashing Russia so one should not expect serious reporting from it.

element1loop · by **element1loop** » 26 Sep 2019, 12:44

southerncross wrote:
falcon.16 wrote:India rejects Russian MiG-29 fighter jets due to constant malfunctions
https://www.uawire.org/india-rejects-ru ... lfunctions

Please, think twice before posting outright disinformation. All that crap about the 29K was debunked, was never sourced to start with, and the site's profile is basically bashing Russia so one should not expect serious reporting from it.

The original story is a quote from RIA Novosti.

"RIA Novosti, sometimes RIA for short, was Russia's international news agency until 2013 and continues to be the name of a state-operated domestic Russian-language news agency. Operating under the purview of the Russian Ministry of Communications and Mass Media, RIA Novosti is headquartered in Moscow and operated about 80 bureaus internationally."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIA_Novosti

Here's the link, put it into google-translate and see for yourself.

https://lenta.ru/news/2018/12/18/mig29k/

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 26 Sep 2019, 14:01

element1loop wrote:
southerncross wrote:
falcon.16 wrote:India rejects Russian MiG-29 fighter jets due to constant malfunctions
https://www.uawire.org/india-rejects-ru ... lfunctions

Please, think twice before posting outright disinformation. All that crap about the 29K was debunked, was never sourced to start with, and the site's profile is basically bashing Russia so one should not expect serious reporting from it.

The original story is a quote from RIA Novosti.

"RIA Novosti, sometimes RIA for short, was Russia's international news agency until 2013 and continues to be the name of a state-operated domestic Russian-language news agency. Operating under the purview of the Russian Ministry of Communications and Mass Media, RIA Novosti is headquartered in Moscow and operated about 80 bureaus internationally."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIA_Novosti

Here's the link, put it into google-translate and see for yourself.

https://lenta.ru/news/2018/12/18/mig29k/

@elemental
You should have ended with...

southerncross · by **southerncross** » 26 Sep 2019, 14:16

Lanba commented, “There is no issue on supplies of spare parts from Russia at the moment…the MiG-29K fleet has been performing well now.”

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... us-carrier

milosh · by **milosh** » 26 Sep 2019, 19:31

Indians and engines? Well Indians are only ones which frak up AL-31F because they are smartest so they don't need to use specified oil that lead to I think at lease one Su-30MKI crash and grounding of whole fleet.

And if we are talking about Indians and MiG-29s:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 27 Sep 2019, 16:42

milosh wrote:Indians and engines? Well Indians are only ones which frak up AL-31F because they are smartest so they don't need to use specified oil that lead to I think at lease one Su-30MKI crash and grounding of whole fleet.

And if we are talking about Indians and MiG-29s:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

FYI I got a malicious virus alert when I clicked that link. Don't click OK when it says, "don't close this window, it's important"...

marsavian · by **marsavian** » 27 Sep 2019, 18:11

Su-57 and the poor man's B-21

https://www.rt.com/russia/469772-okhotn ... 57-flight/

falcon.16 · by **falcon.16** » 28 Sep 2019, 00:47

southerncross wrote:
falcon.16 wrote:India rejects Russian MiG-29 fighter jets due to constant malfunctions
https://www.uawire.org/india-rejects-ru ... lfunctions

Please, think twice before posting outright disinformation. All that crap about the 29K was debunked, was never sourced to start with, and the site's profile is basically bashing Russia so one should not expect serious reporting from it.

It´s not Russia Today or Sputnik news. :roll:

India has decided not to buy MiG-29K 4th generation carrier-based multirole fighters from Russia, due to their constant malfunctions, Russian news outlets report.

The original source is from Russia.

southerncross · by **southerncross** » 28 Sep 2019, 01:29

@falcon.16:

you are mocking Russian sources and then claiming the news must be credible ...because the source is Russian? There are many outlets there which publish outright rubbish, and some of them anti-Russian rubbish to be honest.

I have linked the news where an actual high-ranking Indian officer with name and a reputation to preserve says the MiG-29K is operating properly. We just don't stop reading news where some "Indian sources" claim Russian equipment is junk... then the real officials say nothing of the like and in fact ink new multi-billion contracts with Russia. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence as they say, so I just advise caution when posting such sensationalist news, because as you may understand, increasing the weapons sales to India at the expense of Russian ones is a very attractive opportunity for anyone in the business and the possibility of using foul play in the PR sphere to achieve that goal cannot be dismissed.

ovod · by **ovod** » 28 Sep 2019, 16:17

Big hi to all, my first post on F-16.net...

India' own Comptroller and Auditor General of India has reported that there have been big problems with the MiG-29K's serviceability. Surely that is proof enough - the assessment of an official government agency?

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... hters.html

https://cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/ ... f_2016.pdf

southerncross · by **southerncross** » 28 Sep 2019, 18:03

ovod wrote:Big hi to all, my first post on F-16.net...

India' own Comptroller and Auditor General of India has reported that there have been big problems with the MiG-29K's serviceability. Surely that is proof enough - the assessment of an official government agency?

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... hters.html

https://cag.gov.in/sites/default/files/ ... f_2016.pdf

Welcome ovod!

Yes, problems were reported, then those problems were discussed with the manufacturer and solutions were found, hence why the officials afterwards confirmed the operation of the MiGs was ok. Buying spares and maintaining the fighters properly did help...