J-20 goes operational

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 13:04

So here it is, the mighty J-20 goes operational and deliveries have started..

https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/25/c ... ccelerate/

Not only this, but the J-31 is hot on its heels and will be available for export. So not 1 but 2 soon to be operational stealth birds. Thank you Robert Gates for cancelling the F-22! This, along with their SU-35 deliveries is quite concerning. This also explains why the F-22 pilot I conversed with at a recent airshow seemed to totally dismiss the SU-57 and was far more focused on the J-20. The intelligence briefs must have advised the J-20 was far more concerning (especially with their new BVR AAM's).

What do you think? Could we see hundreds of J-20's soon threatening US AWAC's, tankers and other high value assets?
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geforcerfx

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 18:48

Worried, not really, yet at least. China used to match the US air power in numbers(just numbers not capability) because they had 1000 j-7's in service, now there down to 350, US has no 3rd gen aircraft as mainstay fighters anymore. If they decide to actually build these in mass, which they haven't show much signs of doing then it would become worrying. They aren't slowing down on 4th gen production aka J-10 and J-11B and J-16's are still trickling off the line. But in all this time, 14 years they have made ~300 J-10's, 20 years ~250 J-11 and in the last 5 years added another 75 new flanker variants. They haven't show in a long time that they like to buy expensive aircraft in large numbers. Even if they leave there LRIP speed of around 6 J-20's a year and go to 24 a year the USA will still be buying 90 F-35's a year and moving to 120+ at some point. They have 800+ old aircraft designs that need to be replaces, old interceptors based off the mig-21, newer(ish) interceptor with 70's tech, strike aircraft based off the mig-19. The US is replacing modernized 4th gens with 5 gen aircraft and any 4th gens staying in service into the 2020's is getting further modernized. The Chinese are replacing 3rd gen aircraft with semi-modernized 4th gens and now adding a single 5th gen type to the fleet that they might have 200 of in 7-10 years. The biggest threat china has, as with most things in there military, is numbers the numbers have gone down for them in aircraft the quality has gone up a bit but they are still behind the USA in both numbers and quality of the air fleet, one jet type isn't gonna change, especially with the F-35, PCA, F-X and F/A-XX.
Last edited by geforcerfx on 26 Oct 2017, 23:28, edited 2 times in total.
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bayernfan

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 19:17

I wonder what their criteria for "in service" or "operational". They are still twinkling airframe 1-2 years back and we haven't seen any weapon test reports. It still takes many steps to match the IOC criteria comparing to F-35.
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milosh

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 19:27

bayernfan wrote:I wonder what their criteria for "in service" or "operational". They are still twinkling airframe 1-2 years back and we haven't seen any weapon test reports. It still takes many steps to match the IOC criteria comparing to F-35.


For now they are probable "no pound for ground" so they can achieve IOC realtive fast. Imagine if F-35A only need to fire AIM-120 and DAS only used for Air to Air, it would be IOC much earlier.
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hythelday

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 21:10

milosh wrote:
bayernfan wrote:I wonder what their criteria for "in service" or "operational". They are still twinkling airframe 1-2 years back and we haven't seen any weapon test reports. It still takes many steps to match the IOC criteria comparing to F-35.


For now they are probable "no pound for ground" so they can achieve IOC realtive fast. Imagine if F-35A only need to fire AIM-120 and DAS only used for Air to Air, it would be IOC much earlier.


F-35 also needed an operational squadron (as well as training one, of course). Wonder how many J-20 are actually flown by "regular" pilots. Plane might be ready, but are the end-users too?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 21:51

milosh wrote:For now they are probable "no pound for ground" so they can achieve IOC realtive fast. Imagine if A only need to fire AIM-120 and DAS only used for Air to Air, it would be IOC much earlier.


Nope. Most of the time in dev was used for software (ie sensor fusion). Removing the testing for one or two bombs would not have shortened it up much.
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tincansailor

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 23:55

We have to see how quickly they can stand up J-20 squadrons. Once they start encountering Western aircraft we'll get a better idea of their RCS, and other capabilities. This fighter is still pretty much a blank slate, at least in public. We have more respect for Chinese electronics, and industrial technology, then we do Russian. With that attitude we're naturally more concerned with the J-20, then the SU-57. We'll just have to see how dangerous the Big Bad Wolf really is.
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nutshell

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 23:58

Well, I wonder how many years it will take for the J20 to rake those 100K hrs of flight the F35 fleet managed to get in just a year (2015-2016).
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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 00:50

I doubt you'll see 100 J-16.
Without an export market the J-10 won't eclipse much less approach domestic F-16 totals.
The J-31 is a drain on resources, and eventually it's J-20 or J-31 that hordes the supplies.
The J-20 may be using stolen proprietary F-35 design details, but it still seems to resemble an oversized Rafale clone.
The J-31 is more like a clone of F-35 superficially, but using MiG-29 parts. When you dress up a vehicle to resemble another, they used to refer to them as decoys.
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Dragon029

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 01:56

Have we seen a single J-20 with a non-blanked-out EOTS yet? I think that's fair indicator of where they are at least development-wise with the jet - I'm not saying that such a system has as high a priority as it did on the F-35, but when one of your key sensors isn't installed, it makes me question how far operational the other equipment on the jet is.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 04:17

The Chinese will do what they do with everything. Pilots of nice families will fly it barely and gently and the blue collar pilots who know their jobs will be stuck on less advanced aircraft
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sferrin

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 12:00

madrat wrote:The J-20 may be using stolen proprietary F-35 design details, but it still seems to resemble an oversized Rafale clone.


I take it you've never seen either one? The only thing they have in common is two engines, and the pointy end and little wing up front.
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milosh

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 15:58

SpudmanWP wrote:
milosh wrote:For now they are probable "no pound for ground" so they can achieve IOC realtive fast. Imagine if A only need to fire AIM-120 and DAS only used for Air to Air, it would be IOC much earlier.


Nope. Most of the time in dev was used for software (ie sensor fusion). Removing the testing for one or two bombs would not have shortened it up much.


If you cut Air to Ground from F-35 software are you sure it won't speed up IOC?
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geforcerfx

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 18:17

milosh wrote:
If you cut Air to Ground from F-35 software are you sure it won't speed up IOC?


You can't really "cut" it out of the software, the aircraft and it's software was designed from day 1 to be multi-role. I look at the Su-57 and the J-20 being more like the F-22, designed with a2a in mind and adding in the a2g later. This is why those 3 will have a more basic a2g capability over the F-35 family.


madrat wrote:I doubt you'll see 100 J-16.
The J-20 may be using stolen proprietary F-35 design details, but it still seems to resemble an oversized Rafale clone.
.


Mikoyan can deny it all they want but I think a lot of the design of the J-20 came from this.
Mikoyan_Project_1.44_on_display_at_MAKS_2015.jpg

not a straight copy but they share a lot more design features than the J-20 does with the F-35 or F-22.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 18:36

Yeah, like the MiG 1.44 with F-35 inlets instead.
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