Saab Gripen news

[hythelday]

Still better than nothing though.

I suppose.
But I think they can do better.
They are tagged as being the 38th largest economy by the World bank. Below them are Pakistan, Egypt, Chile, Jordan and a lot of other F-16 operators.

Will the operating cost of the block 70 be so big that they can't afford it? And they'll start operating it at the 2020+ time lines. They're currently the fastest grwoing major economy in ASEAN. By that time they'll be around 34th or maybe even 30th.

I think they should go for Bang instead of Buck. If not, they'll need to look for a replacement to their brand new Gripen C/Ds by 2030+, a replacement being sought after before the order is even completed.

With just 12 it does not really matter what they buy. Looks like they want something to scramble in the air in case of airspace violations and a platform to launch AShMs.

I understand that if "high-speed low-drag" mindset is applied, then "old" Gripen ought to be considered obsolete; but then again there's precedent of ROKAF still flying F-4s and France only recently retiring Super Etendards, so I don't think Philippines will be looking at replacement anytime soon.

[element1loop]

Philippines needs better diplomacy and defense links to allies with mutual interests. Gripen-C will get them building towards addition of another type which may be a South Korean KF-X LO single which Indonesia is still covering 20% of the development costs for (as the new Su35s already don't cut it). So it's not out of the question that 12 x KF-X are added after 2030 and the Gripen is replaced with more KF-X after that (now, if only New Zealand would try to do half as much as the Philippines does).

[zero-one]

Well NZ feels like they're far from the threat (China), which they are. PH is trying to fast forward upgrading their capabilities from a technological stand point.

They probably have the most experience in SE Asia when it comes to actual combat. Vietnam's veterans have long retired from the front lines so that leaves them as the dominant power when it comes to experience and battle hardened vets.

But from an equipment perspective, they're pretty much behind their neighbors and are only now beginning to catch up.
Here's the problem, their Modernization plan consist of 3 phases called "Horizons" and spans 15 years. The Ph's presidential term is 6 years, so thats gona be 3 people at the helm for the duration of the modernization plan

President Aquino was at the helm of Horizon 1. He had warm relations with Washington and was firm in his stance against China, he wanted to bolster external defense capabilities and build up what he called a "minimum credible defense posture". In laymans term he wants the Ph to have at least a decent territorial defense capability and fend of a modest invasion force all by itself. With allies helping, they could thwart a major invasion. Horizon 1 had a budget of about $1.7 Billion

President Duterte on the other hand is in charge of Horizon 2, he wanted a pivot towards China and at the beginning sought to curb the modernization by focusing on internal security instead of territorial defense. Relations with Washington were strained and the defense department as well as the public did not agree with this policy.

He soon realized that this plan doesn't work and that China will not ease their massive territorial land grab in the South China sea, so he is now scrambling to re align the modernization program back to territorial defense objectives. He recently approved the budget for Horizon 2 which amounts to $5.6 Billion

The next president in 2022 will be in charge of Horizon 3, this should be the biggest and costliest part of the modernization program, however the Ph has been fortunate so far as to have 2 President who both prioritize the modernization program. They may have different political ideologies but both grew up around guns personally know how to shoot. The next one remains to be seen. But if all goes right, Horizon 3 should be pushing upwards of $15 Billion dollars. Thats where we might see some serious hardware. The F-35 may be in the conversation.

[element1loop]

Well NZ feels like they're far from the threat (China), which they are. PH is trying to fast forward upgrading their capabilities from a technological stand point.

Given regional tensions I don't think it's acceptable to not have begun to rebuild a basic fastjet force (although there are some early indications of changes). Enough said about that.

Horizon 3 should be pushing upwards of $15 Billion dollars. Thats where we might see some serious hardware. The F-35 may be in the conversation.

$15 billion is peanuts compared to the modernization needs and for now it's vaporware, plus Philippines is in no position to consider buying from the topshelf. Last few times I've seen Duterte on TV he appeared to be very drunk and unsteady on his feet, which probably accounts for the mixed messages and a reduced quality of relations.

[loke]

Test aircraft 39-9 completed its first flight Nov. 26, to become the first Gripen E test vehicle equipped with all of the communications, navigation and surveillance systems that will be featured on the new fighter jet when it achieves a targeted first delivery in 2019.

On the Gripen E, Saab is using a unique DIMA platform software layer that allows all of the aircraft’s line replaceable units (LRUs) to effectively function as one system.

Johan Segertoft, development leader for the Gripen E program at Saab, spoke with AVI after the 39-9's first flight about how the fighter jet uses a unique data data-driven architecture and features unique technologies and materials designed to reduce weight and improve the design and development process.

Can you explain how DIMA enables the Gripen's LRUs to function as one system?

The DIMA system enables a level of abstraction. So from a software application perspective, you can develop code once without modifications based on deployment, and deployment can be in any of the LRUs of the system, which is governed by data driven configuration, or HIL, MIL, SIL installments.

Basically, from a logical perspective, you are working towards one system with the same set of rules and possibilities. This provide a lot of benefits in terms of verification and validation when you are able to run the exact same code towards the same application programmable interfaces in all environments irrespective of hardware or even operating systems.
There are a lot of key capabilities with the avionics platform, safe partitioning and flexible deployment being some obvious ones, but the ability to reconfigure the system with ease and very low impact in terms of reverification, even for safety critical applications, is probably one of the more important of all its unique features.

What are some of the innovative new technologies or materials featured on the Gripen E?

One area of interest, as it is for all aircraft programs, is to find ways to reduce weight. In Gripen E we have introduced aluminum lithium as an alloy for the structural parts, that allows for weight saving. Another technology is additive manufacturing, that has been used for some structural parts also with the intention to reduce weight with an improve functionality as well.

Read more: https://www.aviationtoday.com/2018/12/1 ... ment-lead/

[loke]

OFIA (Bulgaria), December 14 (SeeNews) - Sweden's Saab said on Friday that it submitted an improved offer for supply of new Gripen C/D fighter jets to Bulgaria, and is now proposing to deliver 10 jets instead of the initially proposed eight.

"The optimised offer meets all mandatory requirements set by Bulgaria, is within the limits of the set budget and the first jets will be delivered within 24 months after the contract has been signed," Saab said in a statement.

Read more: https://seenews.com/news/saab-sweetens- ... ria-636748

[zero-one]

$15 billion is peanuts compared to the modernization needs and for now it's vaporware,

It is, but according to their defense secretary, the goal is not for them to be able to stand against China alone, the goal is to not be the weak link against China if a coalition is formed. The Mutual Defense treaty with the US remains to be the corner stone of their defense strategy. Everything hinges on that.

Heres an example, To date, they have 2 Anti Sub helicopters on the pipeline. Talking to a US navy crew member with experience in ASW. he says that you need at least 5 to effectively employ the box trap against an enemy sub. However those 2 anti-sub helos are training to properly integrate their capabilities with thier US Navy counterparts to effectively employ joint operations.

so for now at least, the goal is how to be a more effective ally to the US not to stand up against China alone.

plus Philippines is in no position to consider buying from the topshelf. Last few times I've seen Duterte on TV he appeared to be very drunk and unsteady on his feet, which probably accounts for the mixed messages and a reduced quality of relations.

Duterte's admin ends in 2022, Horizon 3 won't be under him. The PAF's budget for Horizon 2's multi role fighter program is 92 million per plane. Horizon 3 will probably be signed by 2024 or so, is it unthinkable to assume that this may increase to 100 or 110 million per plane for 24 air frames? The F-35 is scheduled to cost 80M by then. This isn't a pipe dream

[element1loop]

Duterte's admin ends in 2022, Horizon 3 won't be under him. The PAF's budget for Horizon 2's multi role fighter program is 92 million per plane. Horizon 3 will probably be signed by 2024 or so, is it unthinkable to assume that this may increase to 100 or 110 million per plane for 24 air frames? The F-35 is scheduled to cost 80M by then. This isn't a pipe dream

It is a total pipe dream, fly away cost is not even applicable, there's a whole infrastructure, people, hardware and electronic systems and supports needed to even prepare to operate F-35s, and they have next to none of it. Maybe after 2050.

[zero-one]

It is a total pipe dream, fly away cost is not even applicable, there's a whole infrastructure, people, hardware and electronic systems and supports needed to even prepare to operate F-35s, and they have next to none of it. Maybe after 2050.

That all depends on what kind of support their Airforce will get from the politicians that will take the helm in the coming years.

The F-35 is designed to be easy to operate, fly and maintain. Korea and Japan already has em. Singapore is trying to follow soon.

They are already close to Singapore by total GDP (nominal) size and have long surpassed them by GDP (PPP) size.
They'll surpass Singapore maybe as early as next year or 2020.

So its not a question of money, because once you have the money, infrastructure, people, hardware and electronic systems and supports will follow. The problem will be their political will. We've seen countries with smaller economies than the Ph mount a more robust and sophisticated air force (i.e. Pakistan, Egypt, Greece)

So I think the question is not "Can they buy it in 2030+" rather "will they buy it in 2030+"

Lets put it this way, If 10 years is not enough for one of the fastest growing major Asian economies to operate an F-35, then maybe the detractors were right all along, its too expensive to fly and operate and should not be a replacement for all the 4th gens.

[element1loop]

It's assuming a lot to think it will be available or offered to the Philippines within that time frame. Personally I doubt the jet will be getting handed out to whoever has enough money. Maybe when there's real market competition on the horizon, but not likely before that. The SH did not get offered to anyone except close Allies until a superior replacement for USN was well into LRIP. Then it was offered to others. More likely Philippines airforce develops with light 4.5s and is offered a forward basing arrangement with US F-35s if that became mutually desirable (and it may). That could then develop into a situation where their airforce is in a position to take on F-35s in conjunction with the US's presence. It all depends how vulnerable they feel. If I were them I'd feel plenty exposed, as glad-handing the CHICOMs will only buy some time, with regard to national security and territorial integrity.

[zero-one]

^^I'll agree with that. Even Filipino defense bloggers I know say that getting 5th gens is more of a political climate question than an actual a cost and capability question.

In the 70s and 80s the PH hosted US naval forces in Subic and in return they got first dibs on high end US made equipment. Along with France they are only 1 of 3 nations that were allowed to purchase the F-8. I would say they were in the same level as Japan and pretty close to Israel level ties.

Then in the 90s and early 00s they were relegated into being more of 2nd tier ally. Something akeen to Thailand or Singapore, maybe a bit lower.

Aquino tried to get back to being Tier 1 by enacting EDCA (Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement) which will allow rotational basing of US forces in the PH.

Early in his term, Duterte tried to Scrap it, they even tried to declare it unconstitutional. But the Supreme court scrapped that motion so it stays.

Now Duterte is aware that his pivot to China isn't working and he's going back to Washington's good side. The fact that he and Trump seem to genuinely like each other helps a lot. What he hated about Obama was when he spoke against his drug campaign. On the other hand Trump supported it.

Anyway, hope the PH gets back to Japan or Korea level ties soon. Fun fact, the highest approval rating of the US is actually in the PH.
http://www.pewglobal.org/database/indic ... urvey/all/

They like the US more than the Americans do. So Duterte is actually an anomaly, its far more likely for the Ph to have a President that is very friendly towards the US.

[boilermaker]

So what if someone told you that you're about to get your newest toy which will form the backbone of your CAP force while everyone around you seems to be retiring theirs

Still better than nothing though.

Some progress indeed from buying the FA-50 which cannot do in air refueling I believe. They should have bought the Grippen back then instead of this crap.

[zero-one]

Some progress indeed from buying the FA-50 which cannot do in air refueling I believe. They should have bought the Grippen back then instead of this crap.

The F/A-50 was part of their LIFT program or Lead in fighter-trainer.
It was supposed to get Filipino pilots back up to speed in the modern day by ordering 6 high end advanced trainers.
When the project was conceptualized, all their supersonic qualified pilots have retired. or moved on to the commercial flight business.

They were offered refurbished F-16s block 30s to be upgraded to block 50 standards but declined. They really needed to rebuild their fast jet forces from scratch after decades of neglect. So the candidates for the lift project were actually the T-50, M-346, L-159 and Yak-130.

However some within the Phil AF sought to have the trainer jets optionally armed as the AF was in desperate need of combat assets as well. So KAI offered the T/A-50, the Alenia Aermacchi reported that the M-346 could also be weapons certified with minimal modifications and the Yakolev reported the same.

Then suddenly in around 2013 timeline defense circles in the Philippines were rocked when the Department of defense reported that the F/A-50 which was the most expensive of all the variants offered and considered to be a long shot dream was announced as the winner of the LIFT program. And they ordered 12 instead of the 6 which was the original requirement for the program.

So the F/A-50 isn't really meant to be the backbone of their fighter squadrons. It is simply an interim fighter that is really intended for training purposes while waiting for proper 4th gens.

The winner of this new program, dubbed MRF (Multi-role fighter)program will be the backbone of their AF.
The goal is to have 5 fighter squadrons supported by some combat capable trainers (F/A-50s) or close to 100 fighters with proper C4ISR support in the 2030 timeline.

If they can make this happen, the Philippines will be a formidable AF for localized conflicts. And as part of an integrated fighting force with allies, they will make the job easier for the USAF and USN if a war breaks out against China.

[loke]

The first Saab Gripen E single-seat combat aircraft destined for Brazil has entered the second stage of final assembly and is on path for its first test flight this year.

Full story: https://www.janes.com/article/86256/bra ... l-assembly

Seems the Gripen E/F program is still on track...

[loke]

Justin Bronk, an aerial-combat expert at the Royal United Services Institute, told Business Insider that like the A-10 Warthog was built around a massive cannon, the Gripen was built around electronic warfare.

Virtually all modern jets conduct some degree of electronic warfare, but the Gripen E stands above the rest, according to Bronk.

Gripen pilots don't like to show their cards by demonstrating the full power of the jet's jamming in training. But the one time they did, it completely reversed the course of the mock battle in training, Bronk said.

"Several years ago the Gripen pilots got tired of being made fun of by German Typhoon pilots and came to play with their wartime electronic warfare and gave them a hell of a hard time," Bronk said. One of the Gripens was "reportedly able to appear on the left wing of a Typhoon without being detected" by using its "extremely respected" jamming ability, Bronk said.

"It would be fair to assume the Gripen is one of the most capable electronic warfighters out there," he said, adding that the Gripens that baffled the Typhoons were of the C/D series, which have much less powerful electronic-warfare capabilities than the E series Gripens that Helgesson described.

https://www.sfgate.com/technology/busin ... 602444.php