Commander Naval Air Forces wants more F/A-18s

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2792
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post16 Mar 2018, 16:16

mixelflick wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Look at the "bright side":
- Since they don't exist it means they don't cost nothing or resuming, they are FREE! (LOL) :mrgreen:


And if that's true, the F-35 has just become Bernie Sanders favorite plane!


I don't wish to get into politics much but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bernie Sanders fully supportive of the F-35 program?
I remember to have seen him defending the F-35 (I think it was circa the time when he candidated to the run for the Presidentials in the Democrat Party side but lost to Hillary Clinton), this against journalists who were questioning him about the F-35 program is a very critical manner (it was also during this time that the F-35 was under an immense scrutiny).
So, I would say that in this regard Bernie Sanders is more sane than McCain for example (well, that's not that hard to be honest...)
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4199
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post17 Mar 2018, 16:46

If that's true, awesome.

I'm no Democrat but Sanders was everything Clinton was not: He was genuine, believed in his cause and running because he wanted to help the country. Clinton finally got all the karma she had coming to her, and I have no doubt she would have gutted the defense dept the way her predecessor did. I'm no one issue voter, but that issue weighs heavily in my mind when deciding who to vote for.

So good for Bernie if he liked the F-35. It will turn out to be an excellent strike fighter, good for the US and good for our allies. After much research and thought, it really was the right decision to move forward with it...
Offline
User avatar

ricnunes

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2792
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2017, 14:29

Unread post17 Mar 2018, 19:01

Ok I found it, here it is:



Take special notice (about the F-35) between minutes 1:00 and 3:30.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
Offline

maus92

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 21 May 2010, 17:50
  • Location: Annapolis, MD

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 02:18

chucky2 wrote:
steve2267 wrote:Many comments complainingly asking why Navair just doesn't start buying F-35C's now, as it is ready NOW (i.e. LM can produce them NOW), and stop sinking $$ into F/A-18E/F Super Dupers.

Question: Is Navair ready for the F-35C NOW? If not, what is holding it up? Is it personnel training / standing up new squadrons or converting Hornet squadrons? Or are the boats not ready for the Sea Lightning for some reason? Is the switch to the CMV-22B for COD holding up the show? Or is Navair really that much in love with the Super Duper over the Lightning? Or is Navair practicing industrial base management by trying to ensure at least two airframers stay in business that can produce tactical combat aircraft?


This is what I don't really understand. It's not like the Navy exists in some knowledge vacuum where they can't see how F-35A and B, along with their C, development is going, and somehow aren't aware of when 3F would be ready, along with at least the first release of 4.x. At some point, someone in charge (POTUS, Congress, SecDev, whoever) should be mandating the Navy stop purchasing F-18 and instead start buying F-35C. Wait, scratch that..."...instead start buying F-35C in the largest numbers it can be ordered in." These F-35C can be staged shoreside and when a sufficient number of them exist along with their crews (pilots, maintenance, deck) are trained up, carriers can start being sent out with F-35 rather than F-18. I'd even go so far to say that when one carrier ends its tour and another takes its place, that other carrier can receive the firsts F-35 until sufficient F-35 are available where that doesn't happen any longer.

One of two things seem to be happening: Either F-35C has some serious issues that aren't being made public and that's why the Navy isn't really wanting it to happen at any speed, or, the Navy is addicted to F-18 and just doesn't care when they get F-35C. I mean, they're buying new SH...just...WTF...how does that even get approved???


Simple. The Navy wants aircraft that has capabilities at least on par with the Super Hornet, and can communicate with fleet assets, i.e. play well with others. Both are lacking in Block 3F, so they are essentially waiting for Block 4.x in the mid 2020's before committing to 20+ units / year. Coincidentally, that's when Super Hornet acquisition begin to ramp down.
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8408
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 02:36

lol.. What is missing from 3F?

"capabilities at least on par with the Super Hornet": The F-35 beats it in spades.

"can communicate with fleet assets": The F-35 has full link-16 communication capabilities.

The F-35 beats it on both fronts. Buying SH now is nothing more than a combination of sacrificing capability at the altar of buying carriers and corporate welfare for Boeing.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

optimist

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1255
  • Joined: 20 Nov 2014, 03:34
  • Location: australia

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 02:42

Block 4 is more marinised than block 3f, but the USN are happy with 3f on the deck, they didn't want 2b/3i

The USN has built a lot of super hornet ea-g, they have built very few super hornet ef over the past years. I would like you to show where these ef hornets are.
There is a current 'proposed' plan from TRUMP for another 24, it doesn't say ef or g, it also hasn't been funded or how many years the 24 are over. It reads like it's just to keep the line open.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... sing-obama

this is what I goggled. 16ef since 2014

http://www.deagel.com/news/US-Navy-Orde ... 16188.aspx
US Navy Orders Seven EA-18G and Five F/A-18E Lot 40 Aircraft
Released on Monday, February 27, 2017
download/file.php?id=22821
Boeing is building Lot 38 aircraft, which
includes the balance of the 12 Royal
Australian Air Force (RAAF) Growlers, as
well as the 24 Growlers and 11(ef) Super
Hornets contracted in July 2014. Lot 39,
scheduled to begin production in 2017,
will take in the 15 FY 2015 Growlers, while
Lot 40 includes the recently-announced
FY 2016 purchase.
Aussie fanboy
Offline

maus92

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 21 May 2010, 17:50
  • Location: Annapolis, MD

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 17:44

optimist wrote:Block 4 is more marinised than block 3f, but the USN are happy with 3f on the deck, they didn't want 2b/3i

The USN has built a lot of super hornet ea-g, they have built very few super hornet ef over the past years. I would like you to show where these ef hornets are.
There is a current 'proposed' plan from TRUMP for another 24, it doesn't say ef or g, it also hasn't been funded or how many years the 24 are over. It reads like it's just to keep the line open.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... sing-obama

this is what I goggled. 16ef since 2014

http://www.deagel.com/news/US-Navy-Orde ... 16188.aspx
US Navy Orders Seven EA-18G and Five F/A-18E Lot 40 Aircraft
Released on Monday, February 27, 2017
download/file.php?id=22821
Boeing is building Lot 38 aircraft, which
includes the balance of the 12 Royal
Australian Air Force (RAAF) Growlers, as
well as the 24 Growlers and 11(ef) Super
Hornets contracted in July 2014. Lot 39,
scheduled to begin production in 2017,
will take in the 15 FY 2015 Growlers, while
Lot 40 includes the recently-announced
FY 2016 purchase.


FYI:

The Navy is negotiating a new 3 year MYP-IV for purchasing 72 Super Hornets between FY19 and FY21. They plan to acquire 38 more between FY22-23.

5 were ordered using FY16 funding. Award dated February, 2017, deliveries start April, 2018.

14 were ordered using FY17 funding. 12 more are authorized to be purchased if and when appropriations (funds) become available (thank your Congressmen for the delays.) Award dated September, 2017, deliveries start July/August, 2018.

14 + 10 are authorized for FY18, but only 14 can be purchased until budget negotiations are (ever) completed. See above. Award dated December, 2017, deliveries start April, 2019.
Offline

talkitron

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 505
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 18:02

I love how the Navy is casually buying more Super Hornets in the next few years than total fighters in many western air forces that we frequently discuss here: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, and Australia. It would be interesting to compare new Navy Super Hornets to total new fixed wing combat aircraft in the Russian Aerospace Forces + Navy.
Offline
User avatar

marsavian

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1723
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 21:55

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 18:17

To be fair the unit cost according to the actual contracts is still less than any F-35 version and especially the naval version. Also with CFTs its internal fuel goes above the F-35C and with five external tanks becomes a great armed tanker for it nevermind the usefulness of the Growler version for all the services. I know the politics are favoring its continuing buy in this age of stealth but it's not bad value for money for the overall multi-use capability they are getting with that money.
Offline

quicksilver

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3168
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 01:30

Unread post18 Mar 2018, 23:58

"To be fair..." the Navy has always dissembled about the real unit cost of SH. And, consistent with that dissembling, the unit cost remains flat in spite of significant systems additions to the jet.

If you are unfamiliar, recommend you get smart on these matters before you show up here suggesting that a SH, purchased at similar annual production rates, is cheaper than an F-35C.
Offline

nutshell

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 487
  • Joined: 04 May 2016, 13:37

Unread post19 Mar 2018, 01:45

maus92 wrote:
optimist wrote:Block 4 is more marinised than block 3f, but the USN are happy with 3f on the deck, they didn't want 2b/3i

The USN has built a lot of super hornet ea-g, they have built very few super hornet ef over the past years. I would like you to show where these ef hornets are.
There is a current 'proposed' plan from TRUMP for another 24, it doesn't say ef or g, it also hasn't been funded or how many years the 24 are over. It reads like it's just to keep the line open.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... sing-obama

this is what I goggled. 16ef since 2014

http://www.deagel.com/news/US-Navy-Orde ... 16188.aspx
US Navy Orders Seven EA-18G and Five F/A-18E Lot 40 Aircraft
Released on Monday, February 27, 2017
download/file.php?id=22821
Boeing is building Lot 38 aircraft, which
includes the balance of the 12 Royal
Australian Air Force (RAAF) Growlers, as
well as the 24 Growlers and 11(ef) Super
Hornets contracted in July 2014. Lot 39,
scheduled to begin production in 2017,
will take in the 15 FY 2015 Growlers, while
Lot 40 includes the recently-announced
FY 2016 purchase.


FYI:

The Navy is negotiating a new 3 year MYP-IV for purchasing 72 Super Hornets between FY19 and FY21. They plan to acquire 38 more between FY22-23.

5 were ordered using FY16 funding. Award dated February, 2017, deliveries start April, 2018.

14 were ordered using FY17 funding. 12 more are authorized to be purchased if and when appropriations (funds) become available (thank your Congressmen for the delays.) Award dated September, 2017, deliveries start July/August, 2018.

14 + 10 are authorized for FY18, but only 14 can be purchased until budget negotiations are (ever) completed. See above. Award dated December, 2017, deliveries start April, 2019.


What a waste...
Offline

maus92

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 21 May 2010, 17:50
  • Location: Annapolis, MD

Unread post19 Mar 2018, 04:09

marsavian wrote:To be fair the unit cost according to the actual contracts is still less than any F-35 version and especially the naval version. Also with CFTs its internal fuel goes above the F-35C and with five external tanks becomes a great armed tanker for it nevermind the usefulness of the Growler version for all the services. I know the politics are favoring its continuing buy in this age of stealth but it's not bad value for money for the overall multi-use capability they are getting with that money.


Shhh.. the Unsullied don't like to talk about costs..... Especially when the F-35 will require another $16 billion to develop capabilities that already exist in the Super Hornet.
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8408
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post19 Mar 2018, 04:36

lol... the proposed "Worst Case" $16 Bil scenario contains Block 4.1, 4.2, and TR3 (both development and installation in the fleet).

SH has nothing like it to compare with: It has nothing like UAI, integral advanced ESM, Adv EOTS, any IR MAWS (EODAS) at all, advanced LPI AESA radar, directional LPI & LPD comms, SATCOM, cooperative ESM, single-ship geolocation, modern weapons like SDB 1 & 2, JSM, every JDAM (ever), UK Spear family, Turkish SOM & HGK families, a host of un-named Israeli weapons, AARGM-ER, etc.


What's SH got, Harpoon?
Last edited by SpudmanWP on 19 Mar 2018, 04:42, edited 2 times in total.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

rheonomic

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 681
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 03:44

Unread post19 Mar 2018, 04:36

SpudmanWP wrote:What's SH got, Harpoon?


LRASM eventually?
"You could do that, but it would be wrong."
Offline

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8408
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post19 Mar 2018, 04:41

rheonomic wrote:
LRASM eventually?


The F-35 can use LRASM with Block 4.1 (UAI), no uber-expensive integration necessary.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests