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Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 00:57
by weasel1962
There are inherent advantages that the Chinese provide e.g. Beidou access and cheap UAVs. Its easy to talk about indigenous development but India has shown what the reality really is. Despite all the talk about local development, its still foreign engine, radar, avionics, nose cone, munitions for the Tejas.

That's why India has limited JDAM-like capability whereas Pakistan has gone all in.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 08:53
by weasel1962
Malaysia looking at Tejas.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/ ... stani.html

Weasel's note.
Malaysia which has a limited military budget is reportedly looking at the Tejas. Cooperation with India is significant in terms of Sukhoi maintenance and training support. However, it is too early to rule out JF-17, particularly as the Tejas uses a lot of Israeli tech that is "haram" to Malaysia. Hence they might do what they did with the Su-30mkm which is to integrate western avionics.

The use of Chinese tech is not unacceptable to Malaysia since they have procured littoral combat vessel from China (and made in China). Malaysia has also bought Pakistani ATGMs under the current PM. The current PM is also a maverick, known for pushing Malaysia's military procurement from a purely western arm to integrate the Mig-29 (which allowed the follow on buy of the Su-30mkm.The RD-33 engine is similar to the Mig-29s used by the RMAF. Similarly the F404 equips the legacy hornets operated by the same.

Also although Malaysia's 2018 military budget has seen a drop from 2017, the procurement of combat aircraft is a well known and long term plan whose need is recognised and shared by all political parties in Malaysia. A $25-30+m buy along the JF-17 range is likely appealing from a budget standpoint which is similar to a Mk 1 cost although a Tejas mk 1A appears to be significantly higher cost.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 09:17
by element1loop
weasel1962 wrote:Malaysia looking at Tejas.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/ ... stani.html


Interesting, didn't see that one coming, but it makes sense as well for low cost of operation.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2019, 02:56
by Corsair1963
HAL is only producing a handful of LCA (Tejas) per year. So, considering the chronic shortfall in Fighter strength in the Indian Air Force. How could they spare any for export.... :?

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2019, 17:16
by mixelflick
Whether Tejas is near 4th gen, 4.5 gen or something else the big question is, is it affordable?

The way I understand it, India has a requirement for a LOT more combat aircraft. If Tejas is affordable, they ought to buy it and buy a lot of it - because it's the only aircraft that'll be able to be produced in numbers. The Rafale is a wonderfully capable aircraft, but no way they're going to ever be able to afford enough of them to fill out their fighter wings.

Tejas (like every other combat aircraft) will benefit from upgrades along the way, probably turning into a useful "swing role" fighter. Until the Indians actually get going though on stamping them out, "made in India" is going to ring hollow. If nothing else, it'll give them the experience necessary to build (later), more competitive airframes.

I do think its wing is ugly as all hell, but hey - aircraft tend to grow on you..

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 10 Jan 2019, 18:55
by tphuang
I think LCA is turning out to be a lot more expensive than originally planned. For the same cost, pretty sure IAF would rather have more MKIs. But if India wants to be a respected power, they need to develop their local industry.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 11 Jan 2019, 03:44
by weasel1962
There are a lot of numbers floating around about HAL cost so I went back to the government source. The below does not include development costs.

The 20 IOC contract was signed for 2701.8 crore in Mar 2006 or 135 crore per fighter which translates at then exchange rate of 44.3 to US$30.5m each. The contract was amended to 2812.91 in 2008. By 2011, HAL was asking for 1381.98 crore in additional funds.

The 20 FOC contract was signed for 5989.38 crore in Dec 2010 or 299.5 crore per fighter which translates at then exchange rate of 45.3 to US$66m each. Its US$42.7m at today's exchange rate but clearly it would not be 299.5 crore per fighter today.

The Mk 1A contract has not been agreed. It is important to note that most of the foreign items would be priced in US$ so in crore terms, it would be more costly if bought today vs 5 years ago. The biggest foreign items include engine, radar, radome and other avionics.

I think US$60+m per plane would be realistic and more likely why Malaysia is not likely to purchase it due to the availability of cheaper options.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 25 Jan 2020, 20:45
by basher54321
Flying and fighting in the HAL Tejas

https://hushkit.net/2020/01/25/flying-f ... eev-joshi/

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 26 Jan 2020, 16:32
by mixelflick
basher54321 wrote:Flying and fighting in the HAL Tejas

https://hushkit.net/2020/01/25/flying-f ... eev-joshi/


This was a fantastic interview, and more people really need to read it...

Like many others, I thought Tejas was a joke of a plane. But the reality is different, at least when you consider what it is beyond skin deep. The problem is that its often compared to much bigger, heavier fighters in the Eagle/Flanker class. Like this pilot said, Tejas is what the requirements specified - a light strike fighter.

It'll never have the range/payload of a Strike Eagle or even the F-16I/F-21. But as a first stab in the light strike-fighter category, it's not bad at all. They've got a great engine in it, some low observable capability and it sounds like excellent avionics.

I would have NEVER guessed an aircraft like that could have operated from a carrier, not in a million years. But they pulled it off, and it speaks to the engineers/people working on the the program and their determination/expertise. So I have a different opinion of the program now, and I think before its all said and done other people will too...

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 26 Jan 2020, 18:09
by marsavian

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 26 Jan 2020, 19:41
by madrat
If Brazil planned to stay in the carrier business this might be a non-VSTOL option.

But... even the Indian Navy now wants to just go for twin engine so N-LCA will probably die soon.

Re: HAL LCA as Fourth Generation Aircraft

Unread postPosted: 27 Jan 2020, 03:05
by Corsair1963
madrat wrote:If Brazil planned to stay in the carrier business this might be a non-VSTOL option.

But... even the Indian Navy now wants to just go for twin engine so N-LCA will probably die soon.



The proposed twin engine Naval LCA is pure fiction. Along with the MWF/MK II..... :?