EF Typhoon, Enhanced Maneuverability

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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bigjku

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 15:22

uclass wrote:
bigjku wrote:http://www.janes.com/article/53302/typhoon-p2e-upgrade-trials-to-begin-shortly

According to this update which is about as detailed and current as I have seen the situation is roughly as follows. They are just starting flight testing in Meteor and Storn Shadow capability which all partners are committed to. The UK is committed to the next upgrade which basically gets them Brimstone. No one else seems interested in that.

The AESA has not flown yet. They hope it flys later this year in a developmental model. No one has publicly committed to putting it out operationally yet. They don't even know what issues they might hit when it goes in the air. If the Saudis are flying with an AESA I would love to know what radar it is and who makes it. Most likely they were referencing that the aircraft could be fitted with it like all the tranche 2 and 3 aircraft are supposed to be capable of. At the end of 2014 first flight was supposed to be early 2015. Now they hope it is in 2015.

There is probably a bit of a learning curve here as well. Does anyone really think they will just slap this thing in and have full integration from day 1? There are probably years of work to do on this thing to get all the air to air and air to ground modes functioning properly. When I see a contract to actually build a deployed radar I will believe it, not before then. The Germans appear to have not interest in moving forward on most defense matters really.

They aren't flying with it yet but the export version is going on the batch of 24 RSAF aircraft currently being built. Integration began last year. Flight testing is part of that integration.

The learning curve isn't that big at all. The biggest problem with the integration of any electronic system is making sure it's actually been fitted correctly. The actual functional part of the integration test is done at the factory. They don't just design a standalone radar on a bench without testing it in conjunction with the system it's being fitted to. Usually there will exist what's called an iron bird model, which is basically just wires and electronics systems from the aircraft in a room in a building somewhere. Normally it will also have been flown on a test mule of some guise too. What remains in terms of putting it on an IPA is actually better described as commissioning in more traditional engineering terms. It's actually inaccurate to call it integration, since the integration testing has already happened. There's no way it would even being going on a plane if systems integration testing hadn't already occurred. It's likely waiting to be commissioned alongside Meteor, which would make sense if you think about it.

The UK is funding it, so German lethargy is no longer an issue.

https://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentar ... cMuhPlVhLM


Are there any sources that show this is actually going on as scheduled though? I provided the janes update which is a year more current than this one and it explicitly describes the situation with the CAPTOR-e being part of P4e rather than P3e. Seeing as P2e is scheduled to be ready by sometime in 2017 and P3e is supposed to be sometime in 2018 that would put this out to at least 2019 I would think.

I am not disputing what you say but do you really think an operational AESA will be flying with Eurofighter before 2019? Nothing I have read indicates much certainty with the issue at all. I guess I just expected to see something beyond a development contract signed at this point if deployment really is right around the corner.
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boff180

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 17:45

The first P2E equipped development bird flew this week for the first time.
Andy Evans Aviation Photography
www.evansaviography.co.uk
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bigjku

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 18:00

boff180 wrote:The first P2E equipped development bird flew this week for the first time.


And P2E as far as I know really just integrates Meteor and Storm Shadow correct?
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uclass

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 18:38

borg wrote:Well, the EF must carry at least one wet bag, if it is to hold up MKI.
If not, then its one of two:

- Bingo fuel, returning to base!
- We need tanker support!

There is important aspect to get the most out of these kind of training exercises, yes?
Imo as much flight hour as possible while the Indians still here.

Nope, in any real life situation, any drop tanks are jettisoned... and ASRAAM is launched at 10+nm against any aggressors, or across 360deg in WVR combat. Basically, a dogfight is a fallacy... against any aircraft.
Last edited by uclass on 06 Aug 2015, 21:16, edited 2 times in total.
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uclass

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 18:40

bigjku wrote:
Are there any sources that show this is actually going on as scheduled though? I provided the janes update which is a year more current than this one and it explicitly describes the situation with the CAPTOR-e being part of P4e rather than P3e. Seeing as P2e is scheduled to be ready by sometime in 2017 and P3e is supposed to be sometime in 2018 that would put this out to at least 2019 I would think.

I am not disputing what you say but do you really think an operational AESA will be flying with Eurofighter before 2019? Nothing I have read indicates much certainty with the issue at all. I guess I just expected to see something beyond a development contract signed at this point if deployment really is right around the corner.

Sure there are sources if you look for them.

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot ... l/Captor-E

The first version, Captor-E radar 1 will be ready in 2017, with Captor-E radar 2 available in 2019.

P4E is mainly a DASS update.

https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/W ... _Power.pdf
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boff180

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 20:09

bigjku wrote:
boff180 wrote:The first P2E equipped development bird flew this week for the first time.


And P2E as far as I know really just integrates Meteor and Storm Shadow correct?


Together with some fairly significant updates to the Defensive Suites, these two tweets detail the upgrade path.
https://twitter.com/BAESystemsAir/statu ... 5580253184
https://twitter.com/BAESystemsplc/statu ... 9287954434


Anyway, back to the Indian Story.

The RAF have challenged the background to the 12-0 explaining this happened during the "bedding in" stage where they were getting the Indians used to UK operating conditions and the Typhoons deliberately allowed themselves to be sitting ducks. Akin to "clay pigeon shooting".

http://forces.tv/00317417
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 20:31

boff180 wrote:The RAF have challenged the background to the 12-0 explaining this happened during the "bedding in" stage where they were getting the Indians used to UK operating conditions and the Typhoons deliberately allowed themselves to be sitting ducks. Akin to "clay pigeon shooting".


You mean there's more to the story? No. Way. :wink:
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uclass

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Unread post06 Aug 2015, 21:16

No way, I thought 12-0 was legit. :D
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mk82

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 04:51

Typical Indian media bullshit! I always thought that Colonel Fornoff had good points about the performance of the Indian Air Force at Red Flag. Too bad that Russia Stronk and India Stronk idiots were screeching like Harpies at some of the things he had to say.
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uclass

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 12:25

Vishnu Som is apparently reveared as a demi-God over there even though they accept that NDTV in general is a very poor source of information. So basically they think everything that media outlet has to offer stinks apart from when this guy writes. It's a case of telling people what they want to hear. :D
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uclass

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 12:53

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 44466.html

It doesn't speak very highly of the Indian AF when the RAF have to go on record and say this:

In an interview with Indian television, IAF Group Captain Ashu Srivastav claimed victory over the British aircraft during close-range dogfights – prompting an RAF source to label his claim “comical”.

Responding to the Indian claims, the RAF source they were clearly designed for the “domestic audience”. He told The Independent: “There must have been some clouded recollection on the flights back to India, as the headlines of the Indian press bear no relation to the results of the tactical scenarios completed on the exercise in any shape or form.”

The RAF source also stressed that the Typhoons had effectively been fighting “with one arm behind their backs” as they did not make full use of their more advanced weapons systems.
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zero-one

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 13:55

Now this is the way to respond. Someone should really teach the F-35 PR team to respond like this more often.

For a minute there, I was afraid the RAF would answer this by saying something like.

the Typhoon's advanced sensor suite coupled with the Meteor missile will allow RAF pilots to engage and destroy targets without getting to within visual range anyway.

:roll:
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delvo

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 14:46

Putting that kind of praise & hyperbole on the planes they already have feels familiar. It's like what comes from some Americans & Australians & such talking about older models that are to be discontinued and replaced with F-35. And India is currently deciding on its next round of new fighters. Is there a movement by Indian pacifists or such to try to run down one or more of the candidates?
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uclass

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Unread post07 Aug 2015, 18:54

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2 ... count=1031

The fact that we were limiting ASRAAM to 2 NM (and simulating export spec missiles), when its actual range is in double digits should say all that needs be said.

And yes, we were flying with tanks (two on most sorties).

It was a training exercise, for both sides and it served its purpose. But you've got to let the Indians have something they travel all that way.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post13 Nov 2018, 15:36

I'm not normally one to bring up dead threads, but I also don't want to start a new one when one already exists. Has anything ever come of the AMK upgrade? Was it ever funded? Did anyone put it on their Tiffies?
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