Thrust/Weight Ratios and Wing Loading figures
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I just finished doing a rough computation of the different Thrust to weight ratios and Wing Loading properties of some aircraft. I tried to collect the best publicly available data to arive with these figures but they are open to correction.
I do know that with today's advanced aerodynamic designes that produce body lifting charactaristics, vortex lifting properties, low drag airframes and internal weapons stations that eliminate weapons carriage drag, figures like wing loading and T/W ratio have become less relevant.
But I think they can still give us a clue on how well these aircraft can perform.
Note: Weight of the Gun rounds & Gun Pod for the F-35C may be highly inacurate
F-22
Empty:43,340
Fuel(40%):8,133
weapons: 2436
4xAim-120:1340
2xAim-9:376
480 rounds:720
Combat Load:53,909
Thrust:70,000
TW Ratio: 1.30
Wing Loading:64.18
____________________________________________________________
EF Typhoon
Weights
Empty: 24,250
Fuel (50%): 5,510lbs
Weapons: 2,267lbs
4 x Meteor A-A missiles 1628 lbs
2 x IRIS-T A-A missiles 384lbs
150 rounds: (255 lbs [2lbs per round])
combat Weight: 32,027lbs
Thrust:
Dry: 26,980
AB: 40,460
T/W ratio:
Dry: 0.84
AB: 1.26
Wing Loading: 58.13/sq ft
_____________________________________________________________
Rafale
Weights
Empty: 21,000
Fuel: 5,180 lbs (50%)
Weapons: 2,265lbs
4 x Meteor A-A missiles 1628 lbs
2 x Magic A-A missiles 387lbs
125 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 250 lbs [2lbs per round])
combat Weight:28,445
Thrust:
Dry: 22,500
AB: 34,000
T/W ratio:
Dry: 0.79
AB: 1.20
Wing Loading: 57.81/sq ft
___________________________________________________________
Su-35
Empty:40.570
Fuel(40%):10,159
weapons: 2450
4xR-77: 1540
2xR-11: 460
150 rounds:450
Combat Load: 51,179
Thrust: 63,800
TW Ratio: 1.24
Wing Loading: 76.73
__________________________________________________
F-35A
Weights
Empty: 29,300
Fuel: 5,540 (30%)
Weapons: 1,932 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
180 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 216 lbs [1.2lbs per round])
Combat weight: 36,772
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.76
AB: 1.16
Wing Loading:79.9 lbs/ sq ft.
F-35C
Weights
Empty: 34,800
Fuel: 5,760 (30%)
Weapons: 2,216 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
220 rounds + Gun pod: (500 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 42,776
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.65
AB: 1.01
Wing Loading: 64 lbs/ sq ft.
_________________________________________________________________
F-16C
Weights
Empty: 18,900
Fuel: 4,000 (70%) <---not too sure about this
Weapons: 2,329 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
511 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 613 lbs [1.2lbs per round])
combat weight: 25,229
Thrust
Dry: 17,155
AB: 28,600
TW Ratio
Dry:0.67
AB: 1.13
Wing Loading: 84lbs/ sq ft.
______________________________________________________________
F-18C
Weights
Empty: 23,050
Fuel: 5,595 (50%)
Weapons: 2,409 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
578 rounds: (693 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 31,054
Thrust
Dry: 22,000
AB: 35,500
TW Ratio
Dry:0.70
AB: 1.14
Wing Loading: 77 lbs/ sq ft.
F-18E
Weights
Empty: 32,081
Fuel: 5,760 (40%)
Weapons: 2,409 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
578 rounds: (693 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 40,250
Thrust
Dry: 26,000
AB: 44,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.64
AB: 1.09
Wing Loading: 80 lbs/ sq ft.
I do know that with today's advanced aerodynamic designes that produce body lifting charactaristics, vortex lifting properties, low drag airframes and internal weapons stations that eliminate weapons carriage drag, figures like wing loading and T/W ratio have become less relevant.
But I think they can still give us a clue on how well these aircraft can perform.
Note: Weight of the Gun rounds & Gun Pod for the F-35C may be highly inacurate
F-22
Empty:43,340
Fuel(40%):8,133
weapons: 2436
4xAim-120:1340
2xAim-9:376
480 rounds:720
Combat Load:53,909
Thrust:70,000
TW Ratio: 1.30
Wing Loading:64.18
____________________________________________________________
EF Typhoon
Weights
Empty: 24,250
Fuel (50%): 5,510lbs
Weapons: 2,267lbs
4 x Meteor A-A missiles 1628 lbs
2 x IRIS-T A-A missiles 384lbs
150 rounds: (255 lbs [2lbs per round])
combat Weight: 32,027lbs
Thrust:
Dry: 26,980
AB: 40,460
T/W ratio:
Dry: 0.84
AB: 1.26
Wing Loading: 58.13/sq ft
_____________________________________________________________
Rafale
Weights
Empty: 21,000
Fuel: 5,180 lbs (50%)
Weapons: 2,265lbs
4 x Meteor A-A missiles 1628 lbs
2 x Magic A-A missiles 387lbs
125 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 250 lbs [2lbs per round])
combat Weight:28,445
Thrust:
Dry: 22,500
AB: 34,000
T/W ratio:
Dry: 0.79
AB: 1.20
Wing Loading: 57.81/sq ft
___________________________________________________________
Su-35
Empty:40.570
Fuel(40%):10,159
weapons: 2450
4xR-77: 1540
2xR-11: 460
150 rounds:450
Combat Load: 51,179
Thrust: 63,800
TW Ratio: 1.24
Wing Loading: 76.73
__________________________________________________
F-35A
Weights
Empty: 29,300
Fuel: 5,540 (30%)
Weapons: 1,932 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
180 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 216 lbs [1.2lbs per round])
Combat weight: 36,772
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.76
AB: 1.16
Wing Loading:79.9 lbs/ sq ft.
F-35C
Weights
Empty: 34,800
Fuel: 5,760 (30%)
Weapons: 2,216 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
220 rounds + Gun pod: (500 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 42,776
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.65
AB: 1.01
Wing Loading: 64 lbs/ sq ft.
_________________________________________________________________
F-16C
Weights
Empty: 18,900
Fuel: 4,000 (70%) <---not too sure about this
Weapons: 2,329 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
511 rounds: (dont know the weight, estimate 613 lbs [1.2lbs per round])
combat weight: 25,229
Thrust
Dry: 17,155
AB: 28,600
TW Ratio
Dry:0.67
AB: 1.13
Wing Loading: 84lbs/ sq ft.
______________________________________________________________
F-18C
Weights
Empty: 23,050
Fuel: 5,595 (50%)
Weapons: 2,409 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
578 rounds: (693 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 31,054
Thrust
Dry: 22,000
AB: 35,500
TW Ratio
Dry:0.70
AB: 1.14
Wing Loading: 77 lbs/ sq ft.
F-18E
Weights
Empty: 32,081
Fuel: 5,760 (40%)
Weapons: 2,409 lbs
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
578 rounds: (693 lbs estimate)
Combat weight: 40,250
Thrust
Dry: 26,000
AB: 44,000
TW Ratio
Dry:0.64
AB: 1.09
Wing Loading: 80 lbs/ sq ft.
- Elite 5K
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Don't forget to include "drag" when carrying external stores.
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Corsair1963 wrote:Don't forget to include "drag" when carrying external stores.
yup, I did mention that on the disclaimer above, this was intended to just at least give us a rough estimate on how these planes will perform.
some interesting things I found on the computaion are
-An F-35A has superior dry thrust compared to an F-16 on most configurations which probably explains AL Norman's statement that his F-16 chase plane had to go in and out of AB just to keep up with him.
-Once on AB, the F-16 with 70% fuel has a very slight advantage in thrust compared to an F-35A with 40% fuel (or more)
-When fuel goes down to 5,000lbs+ (30%) for the F-35, T/W ratios are firmly on the Lightning's side against the F-16C,
by the way,
is 5000lbs of fuel RTB mode for an F-35 or still within its operational comabat parameters on a typical mission?
F-35 similarities with legacy aircraft:
-F-35A T/W ratio and W/L are quite similar to an F/A-18C when both are carying 8,000lbs.
-F-35A T/W ratio and W/L at 40% (7,200 lbs) fuel are almost identical to an F-16C carying 70%(4,000lbs) fuel, both with 4 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders.
-F-35C's 30% fuel is exactly the same as F/A-18E's 40% fuel, 5,760lbs.
-F-35C and F/A-18E have identical T/W ratios when carying 5,760lbs of fuel and 6 missiles, though F-35C has significantly lower Wing Loading.
Just a reminder, Drag caused by external stores and general airframe's drag itself plus vortex lifting properties, body lifting charactaristics, airframe instability, control surface size proportion, flight control software, will cause each aircraft's performance to vary further, mostly in favor of more advanced aircraft like the F-35 and F-22.
P.S. even without the said advantages above, the F-22 is a monster
- Elite 5K
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My point on Wing Loading and Thrust to Weight when comparing other Fighters with the F-35. Yet, "drag" is a big factor in the aerodynamic performance of any jet fighter.
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- Posts: 2848
- Joined: 23 Jul 2013, 16:19
- Location: New Jersey
Just finished calculating the F-35A's stats against the standard Su-30.
Hope you guys won't mind me posting em here as I usually copy and paste these for any arguments I may have against F-35 haters all over the Web. This is open to additional input or correction by you guys:
Su-30
Empty:39,021 lbs
Fuel(40%):8,290 lbs
weapons:
4xR-77: 1540 lbs
2xR-11: 460 lbs
150 rounds:450 lbs
Total:2450 lbs
Combat Load: 49,761 lbs
Thrust(dry/AB): 33,820/55,120
Wing Area: 667 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.67
AB:1.11
Wing Loading: 74.60
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 40%: 44.13 lbs/sq ft
_____________________________________________
F-35A
Weights
Empty: 29,300
Fuel: 7,392(40%)
Weapons:
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
180 rounds: 216 lbs
Toatal: 1,932 lbs
Combat weight: 38,642
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
Wing Area: 460 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.72
AB: 1.11
Wing Loading:84 lbs/ sq ft.
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 45%: 46.13 lbs/sq ft
Hope you guys won't mind me posting em here as I usually copy and paste these for any arguments I may have against F-35 haters all over the Web. This is open to additional input or correction by you guys:
Su-30
Empty:39,021 lbs
Fuel(40%):8,290 lbs
weapons:
4xR-77: 1540 lbs
2xR-11: 460 lbs
150 rounds:450 lbs
Total:2450 lbs
Combat Load: 49,761 lbs
Thrust(dry/AB): 33,820/55,120
Wing Area: 667 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.67
AB:1.11
Wing Loading: 74.60
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 40%: 44.13 lbs/sq ft
_____________________________________________
F-35A
Weights
Empty: 29,300
Fuel: 7,392(40%)
Weapons:
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
180 rounds: 216 lbs
Toatal: 1,932 lbs
Combat weight: 38,642
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
Wing Area: 460 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.72
AB: 1.11
Wing Loading:84 lbs/ sq ft.
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 45%: 46.13 lbs/sq ft
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 9792
- Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14
zero-one wrote:Just finished calculating the F-35A's stats against the standard Su-30.
Hope you guys won't mind me posting em here as I usually copy and paste these for any arguments I may have against F-35 haters all over the Web. This is open to additional input or correction by you guys:
Su-30
Empty:39,021 lbs
Fuel(40%):8,290 lbs
weapons:
4xR-77: 1540 lbs
2xR-11: 460 lbs
150 rounds:450 lbs
Total:2450 lbs
Combat Load: 49,761 lbs
Thrust(dry/AB): 33,820/55,120
Wing Area: 667 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.67
AB:1.11
Wing Loading: 74.60
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 40%: 44.13 lbs/sq ft
_____________________________________________
F-35A
Weights
Empty: 29,300
Fuel: 7,392(40%)
Weapons:
4 x Aim 120C missiles: 1,340 lbs
2 x Aim 9X missiles: 376 lbs
180 rounds: 216 lbs
Toatal: 1,932 lbs
Combat weight: 38,642
Thrust
Dry: 28,000
AB: 43,000
Wing Area: 460 feet
TW Ratio
Dry:0.72
AB: 1.11
Wing Loading:84 lbs/ sq ft.
Wing Loading plus body lift estimate of 45%: 46.13 lbs/sq ft
Looks like the F-35 does very well against the Flanker Series.
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