What The Heck Happened?

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fiskerwad

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 23:28

I believe much of "What the Heck Happened" everywhere is the result of PC. Here's my favorite definition from
a 2007 winning entry from an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.
This year's term: Political Correctness.

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
fisk
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Snake-1

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 23:37

BRAVO FISKER!!!!!!

BRAVO!!!!!

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TC

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 06:22

Awesome Fisk! :lol:
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dfischer

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 13:45

Amen Brother Fisk!!!!
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VprWzl

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 17:40

Snake - you're right on the mark. Thanks for the words.
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fiskerwad

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 22:22

One of the first things we teach new Texans is how to talk straight.
:-)
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fiskerwad

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 22:26

Deleted, I developed a web stutter.
Last edited by fiskerwad on 06 Aug 2010, 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Snake-1

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Unread post06 Aug 2010, 22:30

And shoot straight too!!!

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Weasel_Keeper

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Unread post15 Aug 2010, 07:56

cutlassracer wrote:My swing shift counterpart and I have been discussing this very same subject off and on for a couple of weeks now. We are the swings crew in the pneudraulics shop at Nellis and the active duty folks that come into the shop are night and day different from how we were. I think somewhere in BMT now they must install some sort of electrode that shocks the hell out of you if you show any personality. Like a bunch of zombies runnin around. The Friday afternoon beer trucks in the wash rack has been replaced with milk and cookies in the break room. Have gone way overboard with the touchy feely PC stuff. Snakes right, I'd be court martialled in about 3 seconds in todays AF.


During a Green Flag or Red Flag when you have ANG guys on base...check out the Nellis Inn on just about any given evening. I was there for a Green Flag in '07 and we rocked the club and had the sky cops called out to the Inn about every other night because we're mostly a bunch of the older generation who remembers how to party and have fun.

Col Snake-1, I'd follow you or crew your jet anywhere, and rest assured it would be a good jet! Your post was excellent and in no way should offend anyone...it's the way it SHOULD be! By your post I'd imagine you're the type of pilot who would show up with at least a case of beer and ready to help with inspections if you over-G'd your aircraft. We have a few pilots at my base who may come close, and some have actually done that, but the moment my eyes were opened for today's AF was in Iraq when my pilot (a young Capt) left a piddle pack in his jet for me to get and never even offered me a beer in return...he just laughed and shrugged it off. May not sound like that big of a deal but I'm not the piss boy...I'm the guy who's provided and maintained a safe aircraft so you can get your butt home alive...the guy who gave you a mission capable aircraft so you could provide safety and save lives of the guys on the ground. I am part of the reason my base has flown F-16s for almost 20 years without a single loss.

BTW, I have had the pleasure of meeting Leo Thorsness. As a member of the Society of Wild Weasels (I was an F-4G Weasel Keeper) he was our honored guest at the last reunion in '08 at Dayton. :)
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Snake-1

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Unread post15 Aug 2010, 19:09

Weasel Keeper

Thanks for the words. Sounds like we'd make a good pair.

You point out something that I have been trying to get rid of for the majority of my military career and my post active stink in corporate aviation. AS long as I can remember there has always been a dividing line and seperation between the sticks and the wrenches when in fact it ought to be the closest of unions. Together they are what makes the aircraft fly. Seperately, that ain't going to happen. I remember one event at Udon when Chappie James saw a young and green pilot chewing the hell out of a crew chief for some minor infraction. Chappie asked the 2lt General to step inside the hanger with him and as soon as they got out of sight Chappie grabbed the guys flight suit with one hand lifting him off the ground and up against the hanger door and quietly read him the riot act while the pilot's feet hung a foot or so above the floor. In very clear words he made it absolutely clear that that kind of sh-- would not be tolerated, and that maintenance was just as important in this or any other wing as were the pilots. Chappie could have gotten himself in a world of hurt for that but instead grabbed a whole gross of respect from those of us that witnesses it.

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Unread post16 Aug 2010, 06:29

I'm hoping things might change for the better here. Our F-16 driver/wrencher relationship was okay for the most part but not what I'd seen "back in the day". We're in a conversion from 16s to A-10Cs now, and from what I've seen at many A-10 bases I've been to recently it's more like the old days since it's a much smaller community. Hell, for the first time our squadron CO wants to get pictures taken of the pilots and CCs for each acft to put on a "wall of fame" in Ops. Too bad our MX OIC is a bitter medically retired pilot who can't for the life of him say we do a good job...and would rather look for any little bad thing to blow up and say we suck (regardless of the 19+ year with the F-16 no aircraft lost/awesome deployment FMC rates record).

IMO pilots and CCs have the two most important jobs in the AF...we should be closer.
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Raptor_DCTR

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Unread post16 Aug 2010, 07:56

Weasel_Keeper wrote:IMO pilots and CCs have the two most important jobs in the AF...we should be closer.


I agree that maintenance needs to have a better relationship with the zipper suits, but why do we have to limit it to CCs all the time? There IS other maintenance out there. Specs fix a lot more discrepencies than any other maintenance field (at least on fighters). Sure you sign off the BPO/Pre's but anyone can be cut trained to do that. I was cut trained to do it as a 5-level A1C. I still A-man jets once in a while when I get bored. Weapons gets forgetten about to. Is the CC gonna load that missile or bomb? I don't want to get in some sort of AFSC argument (it happens everyday on the flight line, no need to re-hash it here). I just think if CCs are going to get recognition for "providing a safe jet" then all other maintainers deserve the same.
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Snake-1

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Unread post16 Aug 2010, 14:04

Raptor

I use the relationship of Pilot and Crew Chief as an example of what needs to be the beginning steps at correcting what's wrong and in no way mean to exclude any of the other maintenanace services as this relationship happens every day. The other maintenance/weapons principles are the unsung and unseen hero's that keep the technical marvels we fly going. But we sticks very seldom see or have any real kind of relationship with them. Here it becomes the job of the CC or the maintenance officer to relate the praises from the stick for a job well done. And the ones who get the praise to talk about it with the guys and gals whos activities are limited to the shops behind the flight line. It's all part of the unity of the force I been trying to get across.

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Weasel_Keeper

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Unread post27 Aug 2010, 05:34

Raptor, no offense but I don't agree anyone can be cut-trained to do PR/TH/BPO and actually finish up the job if something has been found during those inspections. Yeah, A-man or B-man...not that big of a deal. However, the CC is held responsible and had better know his stuff. The saying is that a CC is "jack of all trades, master of none" but I even question that a lot. Of course I've been out of the AD for a long time where that may be the case and am in the ANG (full time) where we have to do a lot more for ourselves because of manning cuts and shortages in the backshops. We do a lot more than we're given credit for...believe it or not we're NOT just a bunch of monkeys that are doing a job that anyone can do. A quick look at our 5 and 7 level CDCs will show that. ;) A look at my 25 years of scars from Phantom, Viper, and now Hog bites will show I get down and dirty with the maintenance...heh. Add to that at my base where I'm a civilian technician CC during the week...the top two career fields on the WG pay scale are avionics #1 (WG-13) and CC #2 (WG-12). Everyone else on base in MX is WG-10. Now under our A-10 conversion I think they're even dropping avionics to WG-12 again so we'll be tied for the #1 pay scale.

I do agree all flightine jobs are important though. The pilot/CC bond should be better though because bottom line is that we have daily interaction and have a trust built up due to that. Kudos in general should go to all MX folks and heck all MX should have a closer bond with each other rather than "my shop is more important than yours". I need you for your specialty. :)
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Raptor_DCTR

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Unread post27 Aug 2010, 09:12

Weasel_Keeper wrote:Raptor, no offense but I don't agree anyone can be cut-trained to do PR/TH/BPO and actually finish up the job if something has been found during those inspections. Yeah, A-man or B-man...not that big of a deal. However, the CC is held responsible and had better know his stuff. The saying is that a CC is "jack of all trades, master of none" but I even question that a lot. Of course I've been out of the AD for a long time where that may be the case and am in the ANG (full time) where we have to do a lot more for ourselves because of manning cuts and shortages in the backshops. We do a lot more than we're given credit for...believe it or not we're NOT just a bunch of monkeys that are doing a job that anyone can do. A quick look at our 5 and 7 level CDCs will show that. ;) A look at my 25 years of scars from Phantom, Viper, and now Hog bites will show I get down and dirty with the maintenance...heh. Add to that at my base where I'm a civilian technician CC during the week...the top two career fields on the WG pay scale are avionics #1 (WG-13) and CC #2 (WG-12). Everyone else on base in MX is WG-10. Now under our A-10 conversion I think they're even dropping avionics to WG-12 again so we'll be tied for the #1 pay scale.

I do agree all flightine jobs are important though. The pilot/CC bond should be better though because bottom line is that we have daily interaction and have a trust built up due to that. Kudos in general should go to all MX folks and heck all MX should have a closer bond with each other rather than "my shop is more important than yours". I need you for your specialty. :)


Agreed, if I do a PR/TH/BPO and find something major, if it's a CC job then yes you would fix it. Something minor, anyone but weapons could fix it. I've seen a few CCs that are willing to learn other tasks, but the majority of them will not take the time. So I would say (as a 7-level) master of their trade, know very little about other stuff. It is a little different in the ANG and RES. I have a lot of experience with both. It's just frustrating to everyone else when CCs get all the credit for the work, even if they didn't even touch the jet to fix it. CC's have even less to do on Raptors than Vipers. BPO/Pre's are a joke on this thing.
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