What The Heck Happened?

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Elliboom

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Unread post28 Jul 2010, 21:22

outlaw162 wrote:And you would do what else in Altus, Oklahoma?

:lol:

OL


Go out in the country and see the 1 armed stripper, other than that, not a damn thing.
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Elliboom

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Unread post28 Jul 2010, 21:26

VarkVet wrote:Anyone remember the Galaxy Club at MHZ in the 80's :lol:


"British women eager to check out the hot spot would rent buses and come en masse to the club each weekend, hoping to meet an airman, he said. Once there, they’d bat their eyes and hope that an airman would sign them in to gain entry to the club, he said"

“Buses would come from Cambridge, Norwich, Ely,” Smith said. “The club didn’t organize those buses. The girls would get together and organize on their own.”

http://www.stripes.com/news/raf-mildenh ... ry-1.55803



That's what I was meaning in my post about Milldenhall. Unfortunately there is a big old fence around there now and not a civilian girl in sight. Now you have to take a taxi to Cambrige and hit the pubs there to meet the lovely Brits. It was a hell of a lot easier when they brought the girls to you.
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qslim

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Unread post28 Jul 2010, 21:58

Raptor_DCTR wrote:
Weasel_Keeper wrote:Have things gotten THAT anal that nobody parties or has fun anymore?


Pretty much. The active duty air force is wound so tight it's stupid. They're so scared of offending someone they can't get anything done. This is one of the biggest reasons I PALACED CHASED into the reserves. Hell, the dorms up here at Elmendorf are dry. So instead of letting people drink on base and maybe minimizing DUIs, they make you go off base. Plus you work with the same people day in and day out and on the base all the time. Not many people want to spend the weekend on base drinking. Much more fun to go light up the town.


Ding ding! Too right, man. We had this old badass Chief retire a couple years ago at Eglin, and on his way out he found the cash to get this beautiful bar installed in the break room of the squadron. 30mm barrels for foot rests, the AF star inlaid in stone on the bar surface, it's amazing. We've used it exactly once. It was on a Friday, and the new Chief decided to get a couple kegs from the class six and hook up the troops after work. EXCEPT, he didn't hang around, and all the other shop chiefs stayed to make sure that anyone who had ONE beer reamined in the break room for an hour before leaving work. REALLY?

But anyway, the club here is dead too. Obviously. Who the hell wants to go to the E or O club when Destin is five minutes away?

And ps, I just chased to AFRC too. Homestead, here i come.
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Raptor_DCTR

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Unread post28 Jul 2010, 23:07

Right on, you take an ART position there? I'm looking at Homestead as my next stopping point. A couple more years up here in AK and then I'm gonna have to get off the Craptor and back on the Viper, a jet that actually works once in a while. Plus I miss working Vipers so it's either Florida or Texas for me.
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VarkVet

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Unread post28 Jul 2010, 23:59

VprWzl wrote:Sorry - I guess this whole political correctness, "everyone's a warrior" thing just gets my blood boiling. Tell that to the JTAC who watches his buddy get sniped or to the fighter pilot who watches his wingman impact the ground strafing to protect an army convoy (or just training to protect an army convoy).

Back to the o'club discussion - its just become too dangerous to have the ftr sq party there. We have to do it (sts) at guy's houses or in town to keep the cops or political correctness censors away.

Cheers from a now angry Viper driver


I concur
I was never the one that had to leave work early to make school, nor the one who had to take time off to watch the kids because the wife couldn’t!
Nor was I the guy saying “I isn’t changing no spoilers” because I have football practice. (overseas back in the day)
No, Varkvet loves humping jets as a Dawg … makes a good living, and USAF and National Security is still very much #1
:salute:
My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
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qslim

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Unread post29 Jul 2010, 00:38

Raptor_DCTR wrote:Right on, you take an ART position there? I'm looking at Homestead as my next stopping point. A couple more years up here in AK and then I'm gonna have to get off the Craptor and back on the Viper, a jet that actually works once in a while. Plus I miss working Vipers so it's either Florida or Texas for me.


Nah, just the weekend stuff for now. I built bikes and cars before the military, I'm gonna get back into it. We'll see though, I have very few complaints with the viper, I'm going to miss a lot of stuff about working on it everyday. Those ART spots seem like a pretty nice deal.
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outlaw162

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Unread post29 Jul 2010, 01:45

Boomer (Sooner):

With the economy the way it is, in Oklahoma it's 75% off now.

I think it's even cheaper if you drive up to Hobart.

OL
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Snake-1

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Unread post04 Aug 2010, 03:53

Elliboom wrote:Altus actually has a pretty decent club, surprising for an ACTC/AMC base I know, but it's usually full on the weekends and pretty busy every night of the week. Of course having good food helps the weekday crowd.


Boy do times change!!!!!!!!!

When Altus was a SAC base way back in the 60's you needed to drop your calling card just to get into the place. And It took both the tanker and bomber squadron uprising to get a stag bar in place until the Wing CO's wife closed it down!!!!

I spent 5 years there, went back for a squadron reunion in the early 90's at it hadn't changed that much either.

Snake
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Unread post04 Aug 2010, 03:58

VprWzl wrote:I was passing through Luke a couple years ago and they closed the bar at the O'club at 8:30 on Fri night . . . so much for it being fightertown.

Warning - the following is a soap box rant:
In reality, they are driven so hard (sts) on a daily basis that most guys who have families just want to see them for the first time that week. Also, the political correctness has driven the guys to try to get away from the fighter pilot condemning atmosphere of the AF. Who'd have thought that the warfighters would be the ones who get beat down - but it doesn't pay to be the best anymore. A space guy wears a green bag (for the high risk computer he sits behind), gets a leather jacket, and has wings . . . Everyone knows that the '8 hours a day' admin officer is just as much the warfighter as the guy who risks his life daily and spends 14 hrs a day making it happen. I say let's promote guys based on their Master's degrees and not on what wars they've fought over the last 10 years - oh wait, that's what we're doing. Sorry, but I'm just a little pissed about the guys I know who missed opportunities & promotion because they've been deployed 5 times to Iraq & Afg fighting wars while some guy who has never deployed to a real war zone (but he's a "warrior") works 8 hr days, finishes advanced degrees, volunteers a little and suddenly is below the zone.

Hhhhmm - I guess I need to get off my soap box now. I think we ought to let the support guys fight the next war and we'll take the promotions and school slots.


It's still a pretty much peace time Air Force (disregard the middle east cause it still might close tomorrow) where the un-rated take control, how do you think we got the controlled OER back in the 70's.

Snake
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TC

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 02:12

The Clubs started to suck when the SFs started lurking in the parking lots like Viet Cong, ready to pounce on the first person who stepped into their vehicle.

Now, the only folks you see in the Club are retirees who come for the Early Bird Special. Not counting two Dining Outs, I ate dinner at the Club all of once here at Charleston. The food wasn't all that great, and I was the only person in the room under 65, no bull$hit!!!

Why go for a quiet time at the Club, where once you drink one beer, you're a prime target for a DUI? Instead, you can go off base, and drink more, go safely home, and not worry about being busted by some @$$hole 19 year old SF, who thinks he's Dirty Harry with his AF Police badge?

You think he's got better things to do on his Friday or Saturday night? You think he's pi$$ed that he has to work the night shift? Damn right! Now, who's he gonna take it out on? You got it!

I can echo what VprWzl had to say, and he's absolutely right. So tired of seeing some PowerPoint Warrior, excuse me, *NONNER* get all of the glory, because he clicked the mouse more than anyone in a year, took 9 CLEPs (failed 6, but still says he took 9), volunteered 2 hours with Habitat for Humanity (but fudged the hours up to 12 on his EPR), and proved that he could cross the street without his mommy holding his hand...

...Meanwhile, the folks who get min-turned going back and forth overseas for 4 or 5 months in a row, flying from Timbuktu to East Bejeezus, and deploy once every 16 months are getting bitched at for not filling their volunteer or education squares? WTF is wrong with this picture?

...Oh yeah, we were talking about how the clubs suck weren't we? Sorry about that. I don't drink the Blue Kool-Aid!
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Snake-1

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 03:45

TC
We are Dinosaur's!!!

WE've been down the boulevard of broken dreams, looked across the mountain top and seen the elephant, sang fighter pilots songs to mourn a fallen comrade, and now we are to old to listen to. None the less here is my offering.

It's a whole different force out there with new ideals, new directions, and an Air Force that we couldn't fit into even if we wanted to. So we talk to the young snake eaters and try to tell them what we faced, what was good and what was bad, what worked and what didn't work in hopes that they take these nuggets of experience to keep them out of trouble. Our's was a force of unity and esprit where if one of us was in trouble others would be there to help. If that is there today I don't see it. And to offer some examples; the River Rats when it was first conceived was for only those who flew in route Pac 6. Over the years it accepts everybody and their brother as either full members or honorary while tring to curry political favor and therefore lost its identity among a number of its original members over the years. Dolittles Raiders and the Flying Tigers never did something like that nor would they ever think of doing it. Then there is changing the face of the force through uniforms that look like bus drivers and changing the Air Force Symbol to the god awful space cadet symbol of today so as to attract the younger generation to its ranks, or the issuing of leather flying jackets to aircrews as a re-tension gimmick --- and these things come from our leadership. In another thread I mention the traditions of the Air Force ought to be observed and the answer I got was "What Traditions". What do they teach these people going through BMT now a days??? And why are we acting like used cars saleman trying to sell a bill of goods??

The clubs are a symptom of PC that so many cling to today instead of what's right and good for the force and its people. And that PC, in my estimation limits the free exchange of ideas and thoughts that could be so valuable. I learned as much in the club on a friday night from guys three sheets to the wind who have been there and done that as I ever learned from books. Sitting at the knee of Robin Olds, Chappie James, Leo Thornsen, Ralph Pharr and many others had more meaning and insight then some guy fresh out of instructor school who was still green behind the ears. Now I'm gathering from the postings that the place to let down your hair is in the squadron bars. That's great but the learning curve is reduced significantly inastead the free and open dialogue that I experienced in the club. In another thread I try to convince the younger generation not to sell their soul on all the gee-whiz weapons and gizmo's out there cause sure as hell they are going to have to go back to the grease pencil when that stuff goes tango uniform on them and its like pulling teeth cause they were raised on computers.

Don't get me wrong I loved the Air Force from the day I enlisted as an airmen last class to almost the day I retired 32 years later as a Colonel. But it was starting to change to something I didn't know or understand. Leadership principles turned to management concepts and I saw friends who gained flag rank turn into something I couldn't fathom.

Finally, the title of this thread is "what the Heck Happened?" And this is my offering. If I have offended anyone I apologize. And if asked to leave the net I will do so. I also need to say that I have nothiong but the greatest respect and admiration for the guys and gals who put their lifes on the line every day to protect us dinosaurs.

TC-- you asked what's wrong with this picture so in my eyes there it is.

Snake
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discofishing

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 06:29

If I have offended anyone I apologize.


Ya know what. Who cares if you did offend someone? You have the right to offend them, because they certainly have the right to offend you. Better use that right before the politically correct, socialist douche bags take it away from you.
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TC

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 07:17

Snake, I don't think you've ever, nor WILL EVER offend anyone on this site! If anyone has ever earned the right to speak their mind on what's wrong with our service, it is folks like yourself and Gums.

There is a serious morale problem in the AF right now. Being that we're the youngest service, it seems as though we're always the branch with the biggest identity problem. What that comes down to is the uniforms, the Buzz Lightyear logo, our slogans, our way of life...etc. So much needs to be changed, but the changes have to come from on high.

Unfortunately, I don't feel as though the current leadership sees it. I don't think they realize that there is a problem. Yes, the mission is important, but there's gotta be a better way. I got sick of suggesting better ways, only to be told, "No, we can't do it that way, because we've never done it that way.", or "Don't even try to suggest changes, because no one's going to do anything about it." I don't know if the grass really will be greener when I'm in a new MAJCOM, and operating a new MWS, but I'd sure like to see for myself. Sitting around doing nothing, and wondering "What if?" is not an option for me.
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cutlassracer

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 12:57

My swing shift counterpart and I have been discussing this very same subject off and on for a couple of weeks now. We are the swings crew in the pneudraulics shop at Nellis and the active duty folks that come into the shop are night and day different from how we were. I think somewhere in BMT now they must install some sort of electrode that shocks the hell out of you if you show any personality. Like a bunch of zombies runnin around. The Friday afternoon beer trucks in the wash rack has been replaced with milk and cookies in the break room. Have gone way overboard with the touchy feely PC stuff. Snakes right, I'd be court martialled in about 3 seconds in todays AF.
Torrejon, Homestead, Moody, Osan, Holloman
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Snake-1

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Unread post05 Aug 2010, 16:32

Guys

I agree with your offerings and offer as an additive the following;

When you take away the ability to make a decision from an individual in a critical time you now multiply your problem into something that could be uncontrollable and now your fighting both an internal and external problem. In this regard I give the Marine Corp alot of credit for their philosphy of adapt, seize the initiative, think on your feet and treat your people with respect as they are part of the same team that you are. They listen to each and every idea being offered, review its merits and faults and then get back to the source with their findings. They "TRUST" their people to do their jobs and when they let off steam they stay the hell out of the way.

I wonder how many of our aircrews today know their crew chief's first name, or his wife's, or how the kids are doing, or bring coffee and sandwiches out in the middle of the night because they know that because of tomorrows max go they didn't get to eat the night before, or, when being told the bird that had both your names on is ready to go tell him to jump into the back seat for the test flight --- I did at every base and flying assignment I had. Get into trouble for those flights? absolutely!!! but I did it none the less. Talk about a close unity between my crew chief and me --- it was unbelieveable. And after that, if I walked up to the bird and asked if she was ready and he said yes I would just sign the 781, climb the ladder and blast off. It's called trust and respect FOR EACH OTHER. And I my humble go to hell there is no rank on the flight line. And off the flight line there is that old tried and proven adage -- A senior never remembers and a subordinate never forgets.

Snake
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