quesion about F22 speed-brakes

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nettles

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Unread post01 Aug 2020, 21:55

On commefcial airliners, the speed brakes have a lever but no pictures of fighter cockpits exist online with a speed brake lever apparent. I looked up further information and apparently the speed brake functionality is only on the joystick. Is this really the case? What a horrible functionality in a dog fight.
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outlaw162

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Unread post01 Aug 2020, 22:51

F-22 aside, in all the fighters I'm familiar with, the speedbrake 'switch' was on the throttle(s), not the (joy)stick....which is very HOTAS functional if you think about its purpose(s). Boyd used throttle idle and speedbrake simultaneously followed by a loaded rudder reversal to make his 40 second reputation, an ancient 'dogfight' move. If he had to reach for a airliner type lever/handle he might have been known as 50 second Boyd. :D

All the transport category aircraft I flew were equipped with a lever/handle speedbrake control as you describe (generally controlling certain spoiler panels), not associated with the thrust levers ('heavy speak' for throttles)....which is also very functional for this type....especially if you've got 4 thrust levers.
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nettles

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Unread post01 Aug 2020, 23:31

Thankyou for making that plainly clear. One last question, what about speed setting? On commercial airliners, this is set by a knob. On Fighter jets, is speed only set by a knob as well? If so, during a dog-fight, as soon as the fight is over, this would meen you would have to reset speed and re-apply thrust under a dialed in setting to avoid going down into enemy territory in the event of a flame-out caues by over stressing the engines. This to seems less effecient if that is the case.
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outlaw162

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Unread post02 Aug 2020, 01:22

Commercial airliner flying and fighter flying are basically two different universes, both however with some risk. Other than some aviation safety best practices, they have very little in common. Try "The High and the Mighty" and then read "Thud Ridge". :D
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krorvik

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Unread post03 Aug 2020, 07:31

nettles wrote:On Fighter jets, is speed only set by a knob as well? If so, during a dog-fight, as soon as the fight is over, this would meen you would have to reset speed and re-apply thrust under a dialed in setting to avoid going down into enemy territory in the event of a flame-out caues by over stressing the engines.


The digital engine controls on modern fighters won't allow the pilot overstressing the engine, so even in a dogfight, the pilot can trust the plane to stay in the air. Provided some fast and hot foreign object does not penetrate the airframe that is..

Modern jet engines are very reliable.
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35_aoa

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Unread post03 Aug 2020, 08:13

nettles wrote:Thankyou for making that plainly clear. One last question, what about speed setting? On commercial airliners, this is set by a knob. On Fighter jets, is speed only set by a knob as well? If so, during a dog-fight, as soon as the fight is over, this would meen you would have to reset speed and re-apply thrust under a dialed in setting to avoid going down into enemy territory in the event of a flame-out caues by over stressing the engines. This to seems less effecient if that is the case.


Nothing in a fighter is anything like the automation you would find in a transport cat aircraft. No FD, no intrusive auto throttles or automation for that matter. You set your speed with movement of your left hand on the throttles. Autothrottles are a thing in a very basic form, i.e. capturing a mach number generally speaking, but that is definitely not used tactically. In modern engines, you can be at MAX afterburner for a very long time and not have any worry about "over stressing" them. I've had many flights in my career that were mostly full AB, especially in my short few years flying the Viper. I might use auto throttles and baro alt hold transiting to and from where I am working, but other than that, I'm hand flying and there is nothing automated about it. Same for instrument approaches.....all 100% hand flown.

On the theme of engines, we don't use thrust reduction for anything. You can see EPR on a specific page on a DDI, but it isn't noted on the normal engine instruments, and it has no application in any phase of flight. Every field takeoff for us is full afterburner for example.

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