Fighter Pilot Podcast ep 61... F-22 RAPTOR!

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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marsavian

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Unread post17 Nov 2019, 01:00

From 25min starts discussing FCS and then ACM with F-16 in which he went from using TVC to high speed rating like an F-15 to get more success. TVC engages below 275 knots and gives 40 degree/sec pitch rate. From 65mins discusses DACT with an F-18 and describes an even larger pitch rate of 90 degree/sec at 29kft to get on its six after a merge.
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swiss

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Unread post18 Nov 2019, 21:35

marsavian wrote:From 25min starts discussing FCS and then ACM with F-16 in which he went from using TVC to high speed rating like an F-15 to get more success. TVC engages below 275 knots and gives 40 degree/sec pitch rate. From 65mins discusses DACT with an F-18 and describes an even larger pitch rate of 90 degree/sec at 29kft to get on its six after a merge.


Thanks for pointing it out. This concours also with the TVC specs of the F-16 VISTA, which gives an advantage below 250 kt.
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zero-one

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Unread post25 Nov 2019, 09:22

Interesting on his comments about the why the Raptor has no Helmet Cueing.
Reasons I got were

1. It doesn't fit.
Question: are there helmets under development that may be smaller and fit the Raptor's canopy specs.

2. Budget, no surprise there but his comments after are interesting
"Do we really need fancy heaters when the Raptor can gun you in the face because it turns so well"

I've long suspected that the F-22's impressive kinematics can somewhat offset the need for a helmet but to a certain degree only. My reason for this is that during the 90s, F-15 and F-16 pilots trained against HMCS equipped Mig-29s and though it made the Fulcrum more formidable, they were not totally helpless against it and managed to hold their own even without it.

But this is the first instance that a Raptor pilot actually confirmed that hold the floor and even dominate BFM engagements against Helmet equipped adversaries
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mixelflick

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Unread post25 Nov 2019, 16:25

Your comment about allied pilots being able to "hold their own" against Mig-29's w/Archer..... wasn't what I recalled at all. In fact, it was quite the opposite if I remember correctly One comment from an allied pilot was something along the lines of "it was a nasty surprise and absolute bloodbath", or something to that effect.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

In any case, I think the Raptor community/USAF has known for some time the Raptor can dominate without a helmet mounted sight. BUT, that doesn't mean it'll dominate tomorrow in the same way. When the Scorpion helmet was evaluated, the world was a different place. Today, at least 1 nation and soon another (China and Russia) are flying 5th gen aircraft, at least in some respects. And while I don't think the J-20 will be a problem IF it comes to making it to the merge, I do think the SU-57 will. So a helmet mounted sight could spell the difference there.

I would love for it to happen. Mostly because the Raptor is SO close to being "the total package". It always seemed incomplete though, vs. what it could/can be. The side radar arrays that went unused. Not carrying the 9x for the longest time. The lack of an infra-red sensor or other passive detection sensors other than radar. The elimination of around 5,000lbs of fuel from prototype to production bird. All of these things bother Raptor fans at least insofar as what could have been.

Hopefully, such things are rectified on PCA...
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charlielima223

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Unread post26 Nov 2019, 07:25

@mixelflick

You are correct about NATO pilots first reaction to Mig-29s when they first had the opportunity to fly against them in training (I think it was the German or Polish AF Mig-29s). The archer and the helmet mounted sight was indeed a nasty initial surprise. However as the training persisted and as NATO pilots became more familiar with the Mig-29, better tactics was employed. They realised the Mig-29 didnt have the radar, BVR capabilities, or pilot interphase of its western counterparts.

You are right about the Raptor being so close to being a total package, one could say the same of the F-35 in some regards as well. I dont think the Raptor would have benefited much from having side looking radar arrays. The AN/ALR-94 on the F-22 is nothing to sneeze at. If NATO and the F-35 pilots have something to thank for their updated threat libraries, they could thank F-22s flying in Syria passively soaking up all that radio and radar data. We all know the F-22 will eventually get an IR sensor of somekind somehow and an helmet mounted system of some sort. Despite not having those, the Raptor still dominates. I think that is why you never really hear about its successes in training/exercise events. It happens so often and so regularly that its just become the norm. You only ever hear or read about its defeats because they are so rare and far in between.
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zero-one

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Unread post26 Nov 2019, 08:00

mixelflick wrote:Your comment about allied pilots being able to "hold their own" against Mig-29's w/Archer.....

Not sure if you remember the old "Wings of Red October" documentary.

But here F/A-18s were trained to fight against Mig-29s with the helmet and although they were impressed, they were still able to hold their own. One pilot commented by saying, "He got the first one, I got the second one when asked who won the BFM training (watch the 24 minute mark). At the time of filming, the F/A-18 had no HMCS yet.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post26 Nov 2019, 08:19

mixelflick wrote:I would love for it to happen. Mostly because the Raptor is SO close to being "the total package". It always seemed incomplete though, vs. what it could/can be. The side radar arrays that went unused. Not carrying the 9x for the longest time. The lack of an infra-red sensor or other passive detection sensors other than radar. The elimination of around 5,000lbs of fuel from prototype to production bird. All of these things bother Raptor fans at least insofar as what could have been.

Hopefully, such things are rectified on PCA...


It's true that with funding the sensors can be updated to F-35 standards, like DAS function for the missile warning sensors and also IRST and laser and EW updates. In fact hopefully F-22 upgrade funding for that doesn't get cut because the sensor upgrades is what it needs THE MOST.

But there's nothing you can do to get that fuel from the prototype back, unless you go to a new airframe. YF-22 carried more fuel but fuselage is also blockier and the whole airplane was draggier too, especially at the rear fuselage. Only way to keep that fuel is if you sacrifice some aerodynamics, so a bigger draggier airplane to store that extra fuel.

This is why PCA needs to move to clean sheet design to take all the advantage of advance in aerodynamics and structures and engines since F-22 was designed in late 80s and early 90s. Also, stop with the F-15EX nonsense and put that money into something that actually makes bigger difference, like F-22 upgrade funding for sensors or PCA.
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