The UK reveals F22 knock off

laos · by **laos** » 17 Jul 2018, 13:49

f4u7_corsair wrote:You're being delusional if you think Typhoon/Rafale are just European answers (albeit better) to Flanker and Eagle. It's not like Mirage 2000 or Tornado were around...

Mirage 2000 was answer to F-16
Tornado was answer to F-111

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 17 Jul 2018, 14:06

f4u7_corsair wrote:You're being delusional if you think Typhoon/Rafale are just European answers (albeit better) to Flanker and Eagle. It's not like Mirage 2000 or Tornado were around...

Thats exactly what it is.

Anyway it perfectly states that both the Raptor and Typhoon were conceived as responses to the Su-27.
The Europeans built arguably the best 4th gen while the Americans went ahead to build 5th gen.

With the wing design and aerodynamic layout, What kind of performance can we expect from this beast?
Noticed that its sort of a "chipped Delta" with no canards and no Horizontal Stabs. so turn performance could be mediocre or am I missing something.

vilters · by **vilters** » 17 Jul 2018, 15:21

The only thing the Tiffy has proved is that you need a 122 of them to get 4 combat ready.

The Germans are still not over that one you know. LOL.

mk82 · by **mk82** » 17 Jul 2018, 16:02

vilters wrote:The only thing the Tiffy has proved is that you need a 122 of them to get 4 combat ready.

The Germans are still not over that one you know. LOL.

Eurofighter maths and Germany still wants to buy more of them!

jetblast16 · by **jetblast16** » 17 Jul 2018, 18:22

Looks a little like a stretched X-32 lol (as others pointed out at least its wing plan form and verts)

jetblast16 · by **jetblast16** » 17 Jul 2018, 18:27

The Europeans built arguably the best 4th gen

I'd take a Block 70 F-16

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 17 Jul 2018, 19:42

jetblast16 wrote:
The Europeans built arguably the best 4th gen

I'd take a Block 70 F-16

In terms of systems, definitely. Use the optional F110-GE_132 motor and it should be a Tiffy-like hotrod in a straight line too, but it still won't have as much limited supercruise as the Tiffy or Rafale.

talkitron · by **talkitron** » 17 Jul 2018, 20:25

Corsair1963 wrote:Also, the UK is well underfunded at the moment. So, how will they find the funding for such an ambitious and expensive project???

Cutting F-35 procurement in the 2030s is one option to free up money. We will know more about the current UK defense budget as soon as this week when the Modernising Defense Programme is released. Of course, the UK government will try to downplay cuts and emphasize additions in such a document.

Also, the Tempest looks much more like a 5th Generation Fighter than a future 6th Generation one??? So, I have a hard time believing the UK would make the same mistake over again. As it did with the Typhoon. (as did France with the Rafale)

Both the Tempest and the French/German program are about domestic jobs and exports more than unique military capacity. Typhoon has been exported to Austria, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Rafale has been exported to Egypt, India, and Qatar. So there is a market although in the future some of these countries will require in-country assembly and technology transfer. Of course, the US may get to these countries first with the F-35. We will see.

Britain and France are pleased with any design win even if it is tied to few new domestic jobs. The UK was quite happy about Australia selecting the Type 26 frigate even though the frigate will be built in Australia and use US combat information systems and weapons.

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 17 Jul 2018, 22:59

laos wrote:
f4u7_corsair wrote:You're being delusional if you think Typhoon/Rafale are just European answers (albeit better) to Flanker and Eagle. It's not like Mirage 2000 or Tornado were around...

Mirage 2000 was answer to F-16
Tornado was answer to F-111

And Mirage 4000 was the answer to the F-15 (sort of).

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 17 Jul 2018, 23:01

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
jetblast16 wrote:
The Europeans built arguably the best 4th gen

I'd take a Block 70 F-16

In terms of systems, definitely. Use the optional F110-GE_132 motor and it should be a Tiffy-like hotrod in a straight line too, but it still won't have as much limited supercruise as the Tiffy or Rafale.

Start with an F-16XL. :twisted:

tailgate · by **tailgate** » 18 Jul 2018, 01:12

The scenario I foresee is that the 22’s and 35’s will sweep the skies of any bad guys. This will allow 15/16/18 to operate almost with impunity. It will make the comparisons a moot point. Just my opinion, mind you, but nothing flying right now even comes close to the capability of those two alone

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 18 Jul 2018, 03:46

The UK is just testing the waters with the Tempest Concept. Likely, looking for a potential partner.....Either why it would be 2035-2040. Before we can expect to see such a fighter start to enter service.

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 18 Jul 2018, 08:55

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
jetblast16 wrote:
The Europeans built arguably the best 4th gen

I'd take a Block 70 F-16

In terms of systems, definitely. Use the optional F110-GE_132 motor and it should be a Tiffy-like hotrod in a straight line too, but it still won't have as much limited supercruise as the Tiffy or Rafale.

I love the F-16V and at low to medium altitude I'd put it against any 4th gen with considerable confidence. Although it may be at a slight disadvantage in some areas.

But the Typhoon is the only aircraft that can allegedly hang with Raptors above everyone else

It also has a significantly higher service ceiling of over 60,000ft which allows it to operate uniquely well alongside the US F-22 Raptors ‘high and fast’ in the air superiority role which is exactly where it was designed to excel.

https://hushkit.net/2015/12/18/typhoon- ... inal-word/

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 18 Jul 2018, 09:04

High and Fast is overrated.......

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 18 Jul 2018, 18:11

Corsair1963 wrote:High and Fast is overrated.......

Other than the large benefits it offers in BVR, sure