AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 04:26
by khanasad
AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

AN / APG-77
The APG-77 is a solid-state AESA flat-array radar. Composed of 1956 T / R modules, each the size of a rubber chip, it can perform an almost instantaneous beam direction (in the order of tens of nanoseconds).

It provides a field of view of 120 ° in azimuth and elevation, which is the highest possible value for a flat phase array antenna. Unconfirmed sources suggest that APG-77 has an operating range of 125-150 miles (201-241 km), against an objective of 1 m2 (11 square feet). It is believed that a range of 400 km or more is possible, compared to a goal of 1 m2 (11 square feet), with the APG-77v1 with the new GaAs modules, while using narrower beams.

With a range of 300km for a target of 3m ^ 2 and 200km for a target of 1m ^ 2 With 30 modules distributed throughout the fuselage, the AN / APG-77 next to the AN / ALR-94 the pilot of the F-22 has a 360 ° view with respect to existing and emerging threats, it should be noted that T / R modules capable of detecting and following an objective only provide 270 ° coverage around the Raptor, with its main objective being to locate targets, track them and effect jamming.

N036 Byelka

The radar is part of the integrated Sh121 multifunctional system (MIRES) on board the Su-57. The N036 radar system is developed by Tikhomirov NIIP Institute and consists of an AESA X-band radar mounted on the nose with 1,552 T / R modules, designated as the N036 Byelka (N036-1-01), and two AESA radars. smaller X-band with 358 T / R modules mounted on the sides of the front fuselage designated N036B (N036B-1-01). The suite also has two L-band matrices N036L (N036L-1-01) in wing slats that are not only used for identification of friends or enemies, but also for electronic warfare purposes, LO and VLO aircraft search , RF geolocator IFF, Data-Link, communications, etc.

The computer processing of the X and L band signals allows the system information to be significantly improved. With the possibility of tracking 62 targets and attacking 16 simultaneously. In addition to being able to attack 4 targets simultaneously on the ground. The electronic countermeasure set (ECM) L402 “Himalayas” manufactured by the KNIRTI institute uses both its own matrices and those of the N036 radar. It uses the Russian Elbrus processors.

The novel radar system N036 Byelke provides a distribution of arrays of antennas of different ranges throughout the body of the Su-57, which provides a complete view.

anfault.jpg

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 04:49
by SpudmanWP
:doh:

The L-Band wing things are just IFF. They simply do not have the power required to search for anything.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 08:41
by zero-one
SpudmanWP wrote:The L-Band wing things are just IFF. They simply do not have the power required to search for anything.


do we have any concrete evidence, cause we might be underestimating them too much, remember they did field PESA, data links and HMCS on fighters before the US did

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 09:09
by SpudmanWP
You can't overcome the physics of the 1-3 element (in the verticle and depending on frequency) PESA limitation. Without enough rows, the L_Band transmitted energy will be sent out in a giant "fan" shape (again, vertically). This means that the energy that does reach your "target" will be hundreds of times weaker than a proper PESA transmitter of the same emitter count. Each wing holds what, 20-30, maybe 40 emitters per wing? Give me a break on the whole "it's a jammer, a radar, geolocator (again, no verticle resolution), comms, etc" claims.. it's a joke.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 09:17
by basher54321
zero-one wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:The L-Band wing things are just IFF. They simply do not have the power required to search for anything.


do we have any concrete evidence, cause we might be underestimating them too much, remember they did field PESA, data links and HMCS on fighters before the US did



Which datalink and HMCS specifically?

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 09:46
by SpudmanWP
Maybe he is thinking of VTAS w/SEAM in 1969 (F-4J).. wait, no.. that's ours.

Oh yeah.. maybe JTIDS in the mid to late '70s... nope, ours too.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 10:15
by zero-one
basher54321 wrote:Which datalink and HMCS specifically?


Well regarding the datalink, I read that info here that the Mig-31 was the first fighter (or interceptor) equipped with a data link, I just accepted it as true, but if its not then I apologize.

Regarding HMCS, the ZSh-5 / Shchel-3UM was fielded in the mid 80s, more than a decade earlier than the US version. And yes I do know that the US Army had HMCS in their helicopters at that time as well

Well at least I think I was right about the Russians being first to equip PESA on fighters? point is, just be careful when wielding the "everything Russian is crap" card, cause they're often 2nd best which is pretty outstanding considering their limitations and such.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 10:25
by hythelday
SpudmanWP wrote: Without enough rows, the L_Band transmitted energy will be sent out in a giant "fan" shape (again, vertically)


It's cuz plazma stealth provides necessary beam forming qualities in lieu of more modules, yo.


SpudmanWP wrote:Maybe he is thinking of VTAS w/SEAM in 1969 (F-4J).. wait, no.. that's ours.


TBH from what I read (on this forum, in a similar thread) VTAS didn't work too well and didn't make it to operational squadrons?

Russians get the credit for fielding the first operational HOBS missile meant to be used with HMCS - the Archer. First operational HMCS was developed by Israel/South Africa and was deployed and tested in combat; it was then stolen by SA defector and reverse rngineered into first Soviet system.

BTW, asadkhan/khanasad aka reportmetothemoderators, you are a persisting fellow, I'll hive you that.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 10:36
by gideonic
zero-one wrote:Regarding HMCS, the ZSh-5 / Shchel-3UM was fielded in the mid 80s, more than a decade earlier than the US version. And yes I do know that the US Army had HMCS in their helicopters at that time as well

Initial Soviet HMDs were actually reverse-engineered from the one used in South-African F1CZ Mirage's, so you can't even credit them for that. They only started developing them after they were used against their proxies in Africa and somehow managed to get their hands on one. Also US had tested Honeywell VTAS in the 70s, just decided it wasn't worth it.

I do agree overal that you shouldn't flat-out underestimate the Russians, but you also shouldn't run with their "well known firsts" facts, that often are totally wrong, or taken waaay out of context.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 12:52
by hythelday
gideonic wrote:Initial Soviet HMDs were actually reverse-engineered from the one used in South-African F1CZ Mirage's, so you can't even credit them for that. They only started developing them after they were used against their proxies in Africa and somehow managed to get their hands on one.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Gerhardt

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 13:05
by eloise
Hello wewuzkangz, i see you come back again with a new account. Haven't given up on spreading propaganda? :mrgreen:

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 14:20
by white_lightning35
Call me biased but the su-57 just looks stupidly ugly imo. Nothing can compare to the f-22.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 15:27
by zero-one
white_lightning35 wrote:Call me biased but the su-57 just looks stupidly ugly imo. Nothing can compare to the f-22.


The Raptor is the prettiest non fictional flying object in my opinion, better than the YF-23 even. But the Su-57 ain't all that bad. I put it slightly above the F-35C which is the most beautiful F-35 in my eyes and that plane is pretty high in my hierarchy of pretty looking machines.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 17:42
by mixelflick
I always loved the YF-23A, especially what was to become the EMD. After that, SU-57 given its YF-23A inspiration. OK OK, it's not exactly "clean" in the back, but those LEVCON's, chines and especially the wing. Gorgeous!

I will admit the production F-22 looks a LOT better than the YF-22A. That thing was butt ugly. Reminded me of the Edsel (or whatever) car...

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2018, 18:30
by icemaverick
zero-one wrote:
basher54321 wrote:Which datalink and HMCS specifically?


Well regarding the datalink, I read that info here that the Mig-31 was the first fighter (or interceptor) equipped with a data link, I just accepted it as true, but if its not then I apologize.

Regarding HMCS, the ZSh-5 / Shchel-3UM was fielded in the mid 80s, more than a decade earlier than the US version. And yes I do know that the US Army had HMCS in their helicopters at that time as well

Well at least I think I was right about the Russians being first to equip PESA on fighters? point is, just be careful when wielding the "everything Russian is crap" card, cause they're often 2nd best which is pretty outstanding considering their limitations and such.


The SOVIET UNION had a lot of innovative stuff but that state doesn’t exist anymore. The USSR actually had a much larger military budget relative to the US. Russia has a fraction of the R&D budget of the US. They do have some advantages relative to most countries thanks to the legacy of the USSR but that edge is fading fast.

In regards to a lot of military tech, I’d say France, UK, Germany and Israel have matched or surpassed Russia thanks to the better state of their high tech industries.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2018, 00:56
by marsavian
If you step back and look at the raw numbers Russia does really well defense-wise considering it has the GDP of Italy. Massive army, big air force and decent navy as well as very modern nuclear weapons. I think this is partly due to the fact that their defense industry is still government socialist based and therefore relatively cheap, no big executive bonuses or company dividends to pay. The West usually has the best latest equipment but how expensive is it normally compared to equivalent Russian gear ?

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2018, 02:01
by skyward
marsavian wrote:If you step back and look at the raw numbers Russia does really well defense-wise considering it has the GDP of Italy. Massive army, big air force and decent navy as well as very modern nuclear weapons. I think this is partly due to the fact that their defense industry is still government socialist based and therefore relatively cheap, no big executive bonuses or company dividends to pay. The West usually has the best latest equipment but how expensive is it normally compared to equivalent Russian gear ?


They just spend more on Defense as a percent of GDP.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2018, 02:42
by icemaverick
skyward wrote:
marsavian wrote:If you step back and look at the raw numbers Russia does really well defense-wise considering it has the GDP of Italy. Massive army, big air force and decent navy as well as very modern nuclear weapons. I think this is partly due to the fact that their defense industry is still government socialist based and therefore relatively cheap, no big executive bonuses or company dividends to pay. The West usually has the best latest equipment but how expensive is it normally compared to equivalent Russian gear ?


They just spend more on Defense as a percent of GDP.


Exactly. Russia spends much more on defense relative to its GDP compared to Italy. As for the expense of Western gear, you get what you pay for. High tech military equipment requires a tremendous amount of resources to develop, manufacture and operate. The Russians’ stuff is cheaper because it has to be; they simply have fewer resources at their disposal.

If you want the best talent you have to pay up. The CEOs and executives of defense firms get paid bonuses for their performance. If you want to see the results of socialist based industry take a look at Soviet cars compared to “equivalent” American, European and Japanese cars.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2018, 08:55
by zero-one
icemaverick wrote:
In regards to a lot of military tech, I’d say France, UK, Germany and Israel have matched or surpassed Russia thanks to the better state of their high tech industries.


When it comes to high end equipment, I think Russia still has a bit of an edge simply because the experience and R&D of the USSR was passed down to them. Much easier for them to build off that than a lot of other countries.

But I do agree with you, France definitely makes better Aircraft Carriers, Germany has the best bang for the buck when it comes to Tanks arguably, Israel's missile defense shields are pretty impressive and may be the best in the world,

But the Ruskies still hold a commanding lead over these guys in their space program, I'd say they still have the edge in fighter technology, ballistic missiles, double digit SAMs are still pretty impressive, some would say better than what even the US has.

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2018, 08:59
by Corsair1963
zero-one wrote:
icemaverick wrote:
In regards to a lot of military tech, I’d say France, UK, Germany and Israel have matched or surpassed Russia thanks to the better state of their high tech industries.


When it comes to high end equipment, I think Russia still has a bit of an edge simply because the experience and R&D of the USSR was passed down to them. Much easier for them to build off that than a lot of other countries.

But I do agree with you, France definitely makes better Aircraft Carriers, Germany has the best bang for the buck when it comes to Tanks arguably, Israel's missile defense shields are pretty impressive and may be the best in the world,

But the Ruskies still hold a commanding lead over these guys in their space program, I'd say they still have the edge in fighter technology, ballistic missiles, double digit SAMs are still pretty impressive, some would say better than what even the US has.


Russia is still doing fairly well in Missile Technology and Space. Yet, they're quickly sliding down hill in Avionics/Electronics, Fighters, and Warships. As a matter of fact many smaller nations are on the verge of giving Russia a real run for her money.... :shock:

Re: AN / APG-77 vs N036 Byelka

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2018, 17:28
by nutshell
Military tech and Germany in the same sentence?