F-22 vs PKA-FA thrust vectoring

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tailgate

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Unread post02 Mar 2018, 16:39

There are several maneuvers that are still classified. TVC in the Raptor is used more for high altitude performance than BFM performance.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post02 Mar 2018, 16:41

mixelflick wrote:
That's quite a bit more "aggressive" than the power loop performed at airshows I've been to. Is this something new, or is it part of an airshow routine OR maybe operational testing?


This was at altitude, more safety margin so they can push a bit harder.
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swiss

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Unread post02 Mar 2018, 23:40

tailgate wrote:There are several maneuvers that are still classified. TVC in the Raptor is used more for high altitude performance than BFM performance.


Hello tailgate.

What surprises me is, we always hear Su-30/35 TVC makes them extreme maneuverable in low speed, low altitude. So what is the difference from the Raptors TVC. Which is useful in high speed and high altitude? The shape of the nuzzles?
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mixelflick

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Unread post03 Mar 2018, 15:37

swiss wrote:
tailgate wrote:There are several maneuvers that are still classified. TVC in the Raptor is used more for high altitude performance than BFM performance.


Hello tailgate.

What surprises me is, we always hear Su-30/35 TVC makes them extreme maneuverable in low speed, low altitude. So what is the difference from the Raptors TVC. Which is useful in high speed and high altitude? The shape of the nuzzles?


That's part of it, as I'd imagine they have a much lower RCS and likely IR too. Think I read somewhere where it's a lot more useful at altitude and supersonic vs. when used for subsonic high AoA maneuvers. The Flanker's engine is pretty robust, and it's a good thing - I'd hate to see the asymetric thrust in that thing if an engine quit. Speaking of which.. I wonder what happens to an SU-33 when departing the ski ramp if and when that happens?

When the F-14 got her GE F-110 motors, they could no longer use afterburner on takeoff. The asymetrical thrust made recovery impossible. I have to believe the SU-33 is in the same boat, but they don't really have the option. With no catapault, it's burners or bust..
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nutshell

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Unread post06 Mar 2018, 00:50

gta4 wrote:This is by far the fastest pitching up/down performed by a fighter jet. Faster than the whole Flanker and Fulcrum family:
(clip from Lt. Metz's lecture)
22 fast pitch.gif


H.. O.. L.. Y.. F... U.. C.. K...
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gta4

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Unread post06 Mar 2018, 00:54

nutshell wrote:
gta4 wrote:This is by far the fastest pitching up/down performed by a fighter jet. Faster than the whole Flanker and Fulcrum family:
(clip from Lt. Metz's lecture)
22 fast pitch.gif


H.. O.. L.. Y.. F... U.. C.. K...


Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBQUkEliW4Q&t=2666s
At 43:50
This is why I always laugh at those who boast Sukhoi's Cobra or Tailslide.
Not even close.
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white_lightning35

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Unread post06 Mar 2018, 02:34

So at 54 minutes into that video, the speaker emphatically says that the TVC is only used in slow speed maneuvers. I find that curious, as we have many conflicting statements saying otherwise.
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swiss

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Unread post08 Mar 2018, 00:26



Thanks for the link. Very interesting and informativ. Impressive how long it goes from the first Idea to the finished plane.

@ white_lightning35: Yes same here. But its seems only the F-22 has also benefits from TVC in supersonic speed.

But one of the must important statement from Paul Metz, and he confirms what several other Fighter pilots mentioned, when you get slow in a Dogfight, you are dead meat. Especially with todays IIR missiles.

The answer was/is already here.

Scorpion1alpha wrote:Like some already mentioned, TV enhances the F-22’s maneuvering performance at high speeds and high altitudes where the thin air (the regime the Raptor routinely operates at) renders control surfaces less effective. The F-22’s pedals can be considered two additional control surfaces; that and along with its other design features allows it to maneuver around up there like a slick F-16 at 20K. Get any other fighter up there with the F-22 and they'll struggle mightily.
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