EF2K pilot comments on EF2K vs F-22, misunderstanding...

gta4 · by **gta4** » 20 Jan 2018, 03:15

https://www.flightglobal.com/about-us/b ... ouncement/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... -11248461/
This Phrase:
“in that area (dogfight) the Typhoon doesn't have to fear the F-22 in all aspects.”
is always misunderstood (maybe deliberately?) as:
“in that area the Typhoon doesn't have to fear the F-22 in any aspects.”

That is way too different. Even though I am not a native speaker, I know the former means "Typhoon still fears F-22 in some aspects of dogfight".

Your opinion?

white_lightning35 · by **white_lightning35** » 20 Jan 2018, 03:38

You are exactly correct. But no matter what is said, some people will continue to try and twist words. Gen. Hostage, when asked about the stealthiness of the f-35 relative to the f-22, said the f-35 is stealthier and that its cross section is definitely smaller. I remember an instance where someone online claimed that the general only meant visually, because the f-35 is smaller. No way that the general was talking about radar stealth. Simply impossible.

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 21 Jan 2018, 20:41

I would believe that in a slick/clean profile, the lighter weight Typhoon would be able to get its nose around that corner faster. However the Raptor's TVC is able to point its nose much more aggressively. In that set up it would be like Viper vs Hornet type of close encounter. My bias would push me towards the Raptor (in both BVR and WVR) but that doesn't mean the Typhoon wont give the Raptor a run for its money from time to time.

gideonic · by **gideonic** » 22 Jan 2018, 12:00

charlielima223 wrote:I would believe that in a slick/clean profile, the lighter weight Typhoon would be able to get its nose around that corner faster. However the Raptor's TVC is able to point its nose much more aggressively. In that set up it would be like Viper vs Hornet type of close encounter. My bias would push me towards the Raptor (in both BVR and WVR) but that doesn't mean the Typhoon wont give the Raptor a run for its money from time to time.

As Roger Cruickshank mentioned in an interview: "always remember that we are not fighting the aircraft but the pilot"
https://hushkit.net/2018/01/16/intervie ... ter-pilot/

I'm sure a clean Eurofighter can challenge the F-22 in WVR (it would be insane if it couldn't, considering all the stuff F-22 carries along, always) and it might be a bit similar to the Hornet vs Viper scenario indeed, with the exception of EF2K having no meaningful thrust advantage, unlike the viper.

Now, if the F-22 pilot would get to decide, where and when he wants to merge ... not a chance for the EF2K :roll:

gta4 · by **gta4** » 25 Jan 2018, 13:09

Well, it does not seem like a "F-16 vs F-18" scenario because it is the Raptor that can sustain a higher turn rate:

" I spoke with 2 Langley Raptor pilots (one came from Block 30/40/50 Vipers, the other came from C model Eagles). The Raptor, according to them, has better ITR/STR than eurocanards. And it's a better dog-fighter/air to air platform than the F-35 (sorry it just is). One said that he fought Rafales in Europe, and unless the Raptor pilot was asleep, he should nearly always come out on top; it had better ITR/STR/AOA/nose authority. The other said that the only real concern that he would have if any, was to be "careful" at times with the EF's acceleration. He DID NOT SAY that the EF can out accelerate a Raptor, he was simply implying that its T/W ratio and acceleration is its greatest asset. "

by F-16adf

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5525&start=990

icemaverick · by **icemaverick** » 25 Jan 2018, 15:41

Every aircraft will have advantages in certain parts of the flight envelope. Even an A-10 could take out a Raptor if it got very low and slow....the realm where the Warthog is designed to operate. I don’t doubt that a skilled Typhoon pilot could defeat an equally skilled Raptor pilot in certain dogfighting scenarios (especially if the Typhoon is “slicked-off” as it was in the above referenced scenario). Likewsie, a Rafale, Gripen, F-16, F-15 and even a T-38 could come out on top in certain scenarios.

The problem for the Typhoon is that if it ever got to a merge, it would almost always happen on the Raptor’s terms. If I’m not mistaken the above quoted Typhoon pilot said that if he did everything right, at best he could get within 20 miles of the Raptor before being engaged.

tailgate · by **tailgate** » 25 Jan 2018, 16:40

Just my two cents from experience from “fighting” Typhoons and Rafales........they almost always have gas bags and weapons hanging off them which changes their flight performance envelopes. It also changes my ability to “ see “ them. Start “punching” off stuff, and you enter another dynamic.......gas.....as I have read from other aviators on here.......a “clean” Typhoon or Rafale is gonna run outta gas before I’m done with him......

monkeypilot · by **monkeypilot** » 25 Feb 2018, 11:44

gta4 wrote:Well, it does not seem like a "F-16 vs F-18" scenario because it is the Raptor that can sustain a higher turn rate:

" I spoke with 2 Langley Raptor pilots (one came from Block 30/40/50 Vipers, the other came from C model Eagles). The Raptor, according to them, has better ITR/STR than eurocanards. And it's a better dog-fighter/air to air platform than the F-35 (sorry it just is). One said that he fought Rafales in Europe, and unless the Raptor pilot was asleep, he should nearly always come out on top; it had better ITR/STR/AOA/nose authority. The other said that the only real concern that he would have if any, was to be "careful" at times with the EF's acceleration. He DID NOT SAY that the EF can out accelerate a Raptor, he was simply implying that its T/W ratio and acceleration is its greatest asset. "

by F-16adf

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5525&start=990

I would like to know when there was a fight vs Rafale in Europe, there was no exercise featureing the two types in Europe (only bold quest and trilat in USA). Will dig on that. TY

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 25 Feb 2018, 14:29

@Tailgate,

I hope you don't mind, but can you share some of your experience flying DACT against these 2 Euro Canards.
I hear a lot of stories how thees planes, specially the Typhoon compares very well or at times even superior to the Viper in a dogfight.

It does seem to be overly powered with excellent aerodynamics, but it does have massive wings which may translate to a lot of drag depending on the AOA but then again so does the Raptor.

How would you describe it?