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F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 02:33
by charlielima223
I want to try to get ahead of this...

I saw this over at TheAviationist...
https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/09/u ... od-claims/
(the comment section there will light up and will be fun to talk about in the basement dweller section :D )

According to Russian "news" outlets, last month there was an encounter between an Su-35 and F-22 over Syria. The "news" outlets who have been making the most noise over this is Sputnik and RT. Both outlets have the reputation of taking an actual event and conflating it with false narratives. One such example was the encounter between the USS Donald Cook and a Russian Su-24. RT and especially Sputnik took that event and put in a false narrative that the Su-24 was able to jam the radar of the USS Donald Cook and even shut down its systems.

This time they're are claiming that an F-22 was interfering with an operation involving a Su-24s and then Su-35s were scrambled.

https://www.rt.com/news/412590-russia-u ... air-force/

https://sputniknews.com/military/201712 ... rmy-syria/

http://tass.com/world/980056

According to them the presence of the Su-35's "scared away" the F-22 or that they "shooed them away".

So far no Western news agency (credible ones at least) have been able to confirm this. I've read how F-22's are usually closer to Russian and Syrian units due to their stealth and that they are instrumental in deconfliction. There was an event where Syrian Su-24s were dangerously close to coalition units and that F-22's followed the Su-24s until they left the airspace. With the fall of Raqqa and the last major Daesh stronghold falling to Syrian and Russian forces, what was the F-22 pilot trying to do if this indeed happened? Was the Su-24 close to FSA (Free Syrian Army) with embedded US and NATO Special Operations personnel and that the F-22 was attempting to get the Su-24 to disengage?

Would like to read your opinions on this.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 02:58
by madrat
So what if the Su-35S saw the F-22A. It was the other it didn't see that nobody cares to brag about. Just because someone occasionally sees a ghost doesn't imply it can be followed or captured.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 03:21
by popcorn
If true the F-22 prudently left the area to avoid a collision with a Russian jet oblivious to it's location. :mrgreen:

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 03:41
by sferrin
Most likely it achieved it's aim (the Su-25s didn't bomb their targets) and left. Why give an Su-35, with the latest Russia radar, an up-close look at an F-22 without RCS enhancement on it?

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 04:27
by charlielima223
I'm GUESSING what happened was that the Su-25s were operating close to forces backed by U.S. lead coalition. F-22s were in the area and the only ones that could respond in a timely manner. Deconfliction was called but for what ever reason Su-25s do not receive. F-22 made it presence known in an attempt to get the Su-25s to disengage. Su-25s bugged out but not be for calling for help. Su-35 was on its way with the F-22 already on its way out.
Most likely another F-22 was in the area unseen and using its sensors to "watch" the whole thing.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 04:58
by Corsair1963
Why would anybody really waste their time refuting RT and/or Sputnik??? :doh:

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 05:17
by durahawk
charlielima223 wrote:I'm GUESSING what happened was that the Su-25s were operating close to forces backed by U.S. lead coalition. F-22s were in the area and the only ones that could respond in a timely manner. Deconfliction was called but for what ever reason Su-25s do not receive. F-22 made it presence known in an attempt to get the Su-25s to disengage. Su-25s bugged out but not be for calling for help. Su-35 was on its way with the F-22 already on its way out.
Most likely another F-22 was in the area unseen and using its sensors to "watch" the whole thing.


Also very likely the Russians weren't bombing ISIS at all, but one of the plethora of other anti-isis/anti-Assad forces operating in the region. The Russians often use ISIS as a cover for bombing whomever the hell they want. It's also plausible between Russian intelligence and accuracy, they didn't know who they were bombing either.

In any case, the Raptors got WVR with the Frogfoots for a reason... to make their presence known. I agree the strength of the response suggests that embedded US advisors were in the vicinity on the ground.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 06:05
by rheonomic
Is there a non Pravda source on this?

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 09:29
by hythelday
Typical BS from the usual suspects.

CJTF-OIR already refuted these allegations, seen their reply to someone's inquiry.

Such publications fit their agenda very well:

1) Su-35S/GCI/A-50 can detect F-22s
2) overhyped F-22 are afraid of Flankers
3) Evil kapitalists try to stop Russia from defeating ISIS

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 09:38
by ricardonb
F-22 arrived at Su-25 before the Su-35S? Should the Su-35S not follow the Su-25s? Did not see the F-22 arrive?

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 13:35
by mixelflick
This is the 2nd known interaction between the F-22 and SU-35.

Is making for some interesting theatre. What's more likely happening but not being reported is that F-22's are following SU-35's without them being aware of the Raptor's presence. Both sides are trying to get data on the other's machines, but at the end of the day the SU-35 is hopelessly out-classed. We shouldn't under-estimate it, but over-estimating it is perilous too.

Damn good thing we built it, because F-15's in the same scenario would have all they could handle with an SU-35. Our pilots deserve better..

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 17:54
by durahawk
mixelflick wrote: Damn good thing we built it, because F-15's in the same scenario would have all they could handle with an SU-35. Our pilots deserve better..


Actually it was mentioned by the article posted in the "Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria" thread F-15E's are pulling DCA on the regular in Syria... and have some advantages over the Raptor in doing so. The Sniper ATP aids in visually identifying threats at safer distances where the Raptor, which lacks an EOTS capability, has to get much closer in order to PID threats. Additionally, the F-15E is able to push that imagery and other sensor data to other players over Link-16 which helps to paint a better picture of the battle-space vs. the "selfish" Raptor that doesn't have Link-16 out capability.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 18:06
by juretrn
durahawk wrote:Actually it was mentioned by the article posted in the "Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria" thread F-15E's are pulling DCA on the regular in Syria... and have some advantages over the Raptor in doing so. The Sniper ATP aids in visually identifying threats at safer distances where the Raptor, which lacks an EOTS capability, has to get much closer in order to PID threats. Additionally, the F-15E is able to push that imagery and other sensor data to other players over Link-16 which helps to paint a better picture of the battle-space vs. the "selfish" Raptor that doesn't have Link-16 out capability.

F-15s are seriously under-rated. The C has T/W that makes any Sukhoi blush, more modern radars, great IR, AIM-120D and -9X, and very soon EPAWSS that would make Khibiny pods look like a silly toy.

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 06:01
by lamashtu
As the old saying goes: "If it ain't on tape, it ain't!"

Re: F-22 encounter Su-35 over Syria?

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 21:53
by charlielima223
Out of morbid curiosity I went to the comment section of theaviationist webpage linked earlier...

:shock: :doh:

the comments made there are worse than the one's at BF4C