F-22 Raptor: 20 Years of Air Dominance
- F-16.net Moderator
- Posts: 1892
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:47
20 years ago from this year began the first test launches of the AIM-9M from the F-22. These early tests were to validate the operation of the side weapon bay doors, the rail missile launcher, that a missile could safely separate from the aircraft and the software needed to operate it all.
After the completion and success of these early tests, the goal was to expand the launch envelope that the missile could be safely fired from the jet. Small hiccups were encountered, like in every testing, but one of the biggest hurdles is the F-22’s enormous flight envelope. The missile had to clear and be able to be employed throughout its entire flight envelope. No small feat and was time consuming.
(1st supersonic launch)
Then, only 3 years later, ED 007 fired on and downed a QF-4 drone with a 9M over the Naval Weapons Center range.
For the longest time, the F-22 was the only production fighter that employed internally mounted side weapons bays for short range, infrared-guided heat-seeking missiles. Now, the J-20 and Su-57 have emerged as the only other production fighters having side weapon bay capability.
After the completion and success of these early tests, the goal was to expand the launch envelope that the missile could be safely fired from the jet. Small hiccups were encountered, like in every testing, but one of the biggest hurdles is the F-22’s enormous flight envelope. The missile had to clear and be able to be employed throughout its entire flight envelope. No small feat and was time consuming.
(1st supersonic launch)
Then, only 3 years later, ED 007 fired on and downed a QF-4 drone with a 9M over the Naval Weapons Center range.
For the longest time, the F-22 was the only production fighter that employed internally mounted side weapons bays for short range, infrared-guided heat-seeking missiles. Now, the J-20 and Su-57 have emerged as the only other production fighters having side weapon bay capability.
I'm watching...
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
- Location: Parts Unknown
I can only imagine the envelope for testing the 9M. Had to be massive...
For the AIM-9x Block I and particularly Block II, I'm sure they will/already have cleared that same envelope. I'm wondering though how many Block II shots will be taken from extreme AOA's and such. I would think that given its increase in range, most shots would be straight and level at a higher mach speed?
Especially with LOAL. But I'm no expert in these matters, that's why I'm asking here
For the AIM-9x Block I and particularly Block II, I'm sure they will/already have cleared that same envelope. I'm wondering though how many Block II shots will be taken from extreme AOA's and such. I would think that given its increase in range, most shots would be straight and level at a higher mach speed?
Especially with LOAL. But I'm no expert in these matters, that's why I'm asking here
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 9840
- Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14
New Pilot Training Plan Could Provide More F-22 Combat Power, Red Air
June 22, 2020 | By John A. Tirpak
Air Combat Command’s new plan to reorganize fighter pilot training could generate more combat-coded F-22s for both operational and “Red Air” roles without buying any new aircraft, ACC commander Gen. James M. Holmes said June 22.
Holmes, speaking at a virtual Mitchell Institute Aerospace Nation event, explained that the Rebuilding the Forge, or Reforge, plan combines the fighter fundamentals course with the Fighter Training Unit process, eliminating at least one change of station move for fighter pilots and using new technology to accelerate their proficiency. That would translate to fewer F-22s being needed for basic skills training and more tails available either for combat exercises or, in the case of older jets, as opponents for more upgraded versions of the Raptor.
“Part of what we’re trying to do is see if we could create more capacity without spending more money,” Holmes said. If Reforge works, fewer F-22s would be needed for basic skills training in the jet. “We can take some of that training-coded iron and turn it into combat-coded iron. We already paid for it, we already paid for the people that fly it.”
Holmes said ACC looks at modifying its training F-22s to full combat capability “every year,” but the move usually falls to some higher priority. If the money could be found to do it, he said, one approach might be to “just keep working through the older ones,” as the newer-block aircraft are complete, though he acknowledged that will come at an increased cost.
Tradeoffs have to be made, though, “about the best place to spend your counterair dollar.”
The F-22s used for training are still highly capable aircraft, he added.
“The older-block F-22s, they’re already combat capable, even without bringing them up to the higher standard. I’d certainly pick one of those over some of our legacy airplanes if I had to go fight.”
Another option, he said, “is to fly those older airplanes in a Red Air role,” putting new students in the most up-to-date versions so they don’t get accustomed to an older configuration.
“With two operational squadrons” at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va., “and the Red Air requirements for the FTU, can we kind of trade the airplanes among each other and make an effective use of the older airplanes in a Red Air role while we save our limited modernization dollars for those newer airplanes?” he asked. “We could produce some increased capacity that way.” The F-22s already fly some Red Air, augmenting T-38s employed in that role, Holmes said.
ACC also is looking at a new class of attritable and remotely piloted aircraft for possible use in an adversary training role, he noted.
Like all of ACC’s systems, Holmes said, the F-22 has its own unique sustainment issues. The type was flown more hours than planned during operations in Syria, he noted, and that taxed the number of engines available. But he said work with Pratt & Whitney and its suppliers has addressed the issue and “we’re in pretty good shape,” now.
Training has become more efficient in the F-22 since the service consolidated from six squadrons with 18-21 aircraft to five squadrons with 24 aircraft, he said.
To prove out the new Reforge plan, Holmes said the Air Force intends to lease “a small number” of Korea Aerospace Industries/Lockheed Martin T-50 advanced trainers, Leonardo M346 trainers, or other aircraft while the Air Force waits for the new Boeing/Saab T-7A. The jets, which would start working in summer of 2021, would train a cadre of fighter pilots using Reforge methods to see if the ideas actually work.
“The T-7 is a great airplane, can’t wait to get our hands on it, but it’s several years away,” Holmes said, explaining the need for the jets. “Boeing and Saab are working on shifting to an operational airplane, and they’d tell you they’re pretty darn close … We’re trying to use the time while we’re waiting … to figure out the best way forward.”
Initially, the plan was to go with the T-50, but Holmes said there was interest from other companies, “and competition is in our interest, to see who can come in at an affordable price.” It’s possible the trainer lease won’t be affordable, he allowed, in which case ACC will try to figure out another proof of concept.
https://www.airforcemag.com/new-pilot-t ... r-red-air/
June 22, 2020 | By John A. Tirpak
Air Combat Command’s new plan to reorganize fighter pilot training could generate more combat-coded F-22s for both operational and “Red Air” roles without buying any new aircraft, ACC commander Gen. James M. Holmes said June 22.
Holmes, speaking at a virtual Mitchell Institute Aerospace Nation event, explained that the Rebuilding the Forge, or Reforge, plan combines the fighter fundamentals course with the Fighter Training Unit process, eliminating at least one change of station move for fighter pilots and using new technology to accelerate their proficiency. That would translate to fewer F-22s being needed for basic skills training and more tails available either for combat exercises or, in the case of older jets, as opponents for more upgraded versions of the Raptor.
“Part of what we’re trying to do is see if we could create more capacity without spending more money,” Holmes said. If Reforge works, fewer F-22s would be needed for basic skills training in the jet. “We can take some of that training-coded iron and turn it into combat-coded iron. We already paid for it, we already paid for the people that fly it.”
Holmes said ACC looks at modifying its training F-22s to full combat capability “every year,” but the move usually falls to some higher priority. If the money could be found to do it, he said, one approach might be to “just keep working through the older ones,” as the newer-block aircraft are complete, though he acknowledged that will come at an increased cost.
Tradeoffs have to be made, though, “about the best place to spend your counterair dollar.”
The F-22s used for training are still highly capable aircraft, he added.
“The older-block F-22s, they’re already combat capable, even without bringing them up to the higher standard. I’d certainly pick one of those over some of our legacy airplanes if I had to go fight.”
Another option, he said, “is to fly those older airplanes in a Red Air role,” putting new students in the most up-to-date versions so they don’t get accustomed to an older configuration.
“With two operational squadrons” at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va., “and the Red Air requirements for the FTU, can we kind of trade the airplanes among each other and make an effective use of the older airplanes in a Red Air role while we save our limited modernization dollars for those newer airplanes?” he asked. “We could produce some increased capacity that way.” The F-22s already fly some Red Air, augmenting T-38s employed in that role, Holmes said.
ACC also is looking at a new class of attritable and remotely piloted aircraft for possible use in an adversary training role, he noted.
Like all of ACC’s systems, Holmes said, the F-22 has its own unique sustainment issues. The type was flown more hours than planned during operations in Syria, he noted, and that taxed the number of engines available. But he said work with Pratt & Whitney and its suppliers has addressed the issue and “we’re in pretty good shape,” now.
Training has become more efficient in the F-22 since the service consolidated from six squadrons with 18-21 aircraft to five squadrons with 24 aircraft, he said.
To prove out the new Reforge plan, Holmes said the Air Force intends to lease “a small number” of Korea Aerospace Industries/Lockheed Martin T-50 advanced trainers, Leonardo M346 trainers, or other aircraft while the Air Force waits for the new Boeing/Saab T-7A. The jets, which would start working in summer of 2021, would train a cadre of fighter pilots using Reforge methods to see if the ideas actually work.
“The T-7 is a great airplane, can’t wait to get our hands on it, but it’s several years away,” Holmes said, explaining the need for the jets. “Boeing and Saab are working on shifting to an operational airplane, and they’d tell you they’re pretty darn close … We’re trying to use the time while we’re waiting … to figure out the best way forward.”
Initially, the plan was to go with the T-50, but Holmes said there was interest from other companies, “and competition is in our interest, to see who can come in at an affordable price.” It’s possible the trainer lease won’t be affordable, he allowed, in which case ACC will try to figure out another proof of concept.
https://www.airforcemag.com/new-pilot-t ... r-red-air/
- Elite 2K
- Posts: 2566
- Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26
Short article concerning the F-22's ongoing enhancement and sustainment efforts.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/08/21 ... n-program/
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/08/21 ... n-program/
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
- Location: Parts Unknown
charlielima223 wrote:Short article concerning the F-22's ongoing enhancement and sustainment efforts.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/08/21 ... n-program/
We should take bets on if the F-22 gets a helmet mounted sight before its retired. Mind blowing to think they've left that unfunded. Especially since there will be F-15C's retired soon, that were equipped with one. Probably F-16's too, as the F-35 comes online.
- Elite 2K
- Posts: 2566
- Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26
mixelflick wrote:
We should take bets on if the F-22 gets a helmet mounted sight before its retired. Mind blowing to think they've left that unfunded. Especially since there will be F-15C's retired soon, that were equipped with one. Probably F-16's too, as the F-35 comes online.
I differ to Col "Stretch" Scott's remarks and opinions in the F-22 episode of TFPPC.
Dont get me wrong, the need and want for some kind of helmet mounted system is something that has been in the Raptor community for some time now. Of course there is so much funding to go around and it is who needs it most sometimes.
- Elite 2K
- Posts: 2566
- Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26
Nothing like getting to know the Raptor better!
https://www.aflcmc.af.mil/News/Article- ... 22-raptor/
Another article about it here
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ter-167825
https://www.aflcmc.af.mil/News/Article- ... 22-raptor/
The 411th Flight Test Squadron in conjunction with the 412th Range Squadron achieved the first successful flight of the Common Range Integrated Instrumentation System (CRIIS) at Edwards Air Force Base, California, Aug. 5. This event marked the first flight of the CRIIS at the Edwards Flight Test Range, and it was also the first flight on a fifth-generation fighter platform.
***
CRIIS is a tri-service Test and Evaluation range system designed to replace the aging ARDS. The CRIIS system can downlink and relay aircraft TSPI, as well as other aircraft data to a test range ground station.
“CRIIS will enable F-22 flight testing for the foreseeable future,” said Zachary Rumble, 775thTest Squadron, and F-22 Navigation Subject Matter Expert. “In initial testing, CRIIS appears to be more accurate than the legacy ARDS plate, with more room for growth.”
Recent CRIIS flight testing has proven the ability of the system to record highly accurate TSPI on board the F-22. A - test of CRIIS data from an F-22 to a mission control room is on track for later this summer.
Another article about it here
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ter-167825
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
- Location: Parts Unknown
charlielima223 wrote:Nothing like getting to know the Raptor better!
https://www.aflcmc.af.mil/News/Article- ... 22-raptor/The 411th Flight Test Squadron in conjunction with the 412th Range Squadron achieved the first successful flight of the Common Range Integrated Instrumentation System (CRIIS) at Edwards Air Force Base, California, Aug. 5. This event marked the first flight of the CRIIS at the Edwards Flight Test Range, and it was also the first flight on a fifth-generation fighter platform.
***
CRIIS is a tri-service Test and Evaluation range system designed to replace the aging ARDS. The CRIIS system can downlink and relay aircraft TSPI, as well as other aircraft data to a test range ground station.
“CRIIS will enable F-22 flight testing for the foreseeable future,” said Zachary Rumble, 775thTest Squadron, and F-22 Navigation Subject Matter Expert. “In initial testing, CRIIS appears to be more accurate than the legacy ARDS plate, with more room for growth.”
Recent CRIIS flight testing has proven the ability of the system to record highly accurate TSPI on board the F-22. A - test of CRIIS data from an F-22 to a mission control room is on track for later this summer.
Another article about it here
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ter-167825
Thanks for sharing..
This is the kind of "non sexy" stuff that really matters, and it's great to see them still investing in the jet. Whatever new capabilities it brings, I'm sure its welcomed. They are keeping the bird ahead of the competition, and you can't do that without doing this kind of grunt work.
- F-16.net Moderator
- Posts: 1892
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:47
On 10 October 1998 (22yrs ago), the 1st EMD jet, Raptor 4001 broke the sound barrier after over a year of flight tests. It flew past MACH 1 several times during the sortie.
On 13 October 2020 (20yrs ago), the 1st EMD jet completed its final test flight and subsequently retired. It was later flown to Wright Patterson AFB and used as a test article as a live-fire testbed.
I'm watching...
- Elite 1K
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09
F-22 vs F-16-vs F-15E.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usaf-f- ... ngagement/
He really doesn't paint the F-15 in a good light when it comes to BMF.
And I was surprised to know that at altitude the F-16 does well against the Raptor.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usaf-f- ... ngagement/
He really doesn't paint the F-15 in a good light when it comes to BMF.
And I was surprised to know that at altitude the F-16 does well against the Raptor.
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 5298
- Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
- Location: Finland
That also highlights just what an awesome aircraft F-35 is. It has most of the best qualities of each of these aircraft (F-22, F-16 and F-15E).
From F-22 it takes VLO stealth, really advanced sensors and sensor fusion.
From F-15E it takes payload and range.
From F-16 it takes flight performance, dimensions and costs.
Only thing missing really is the supersonic performance of F-22. But the combination of these qualities makes for a really awesome fighter aircraft, including for gaining Air Dominance.
From F-22 it takes VLO stealth, really advanced sensors and sensor fusion.
From F-15E it takes payload and range.
From F-16 it takes flight performance, dimensions and costs.
Only thing missing really is the supersonic performance of F-22. But the combination of these qualities makes for a really awesome fighter aircraft, including for gaining Air Dominance.
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 9840
- Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14
hornetfinn wrote:That also highlights just what an awesome aircraft F-35 is. It has most of the best qualities of each of these aircraft (F-22, F-16 and F-15E).
From F-22 it takes VLO stealth, really advanced sensors and sensor fusion.
From F-15E it takes payload and range.
From F-16 it takes flight performance, dimensions and costs.
Only thing missing really is the supersonic performance of F-22. But the combination of these qualities makes for a really awesome fighter aircraft, including for gaining Air Dominance.
Well said........
- Elite 2K
- Posts: 2566
- Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26
Corsair1963 wrote:hornetfinn wrote:That also highlights just what an awesome aircraft F-35 is. It has most of the best qualities of each of these aircraft (F-22, F-16 and F-15E).
From F-22 it takes VLO stealth, really advanced sensors and sensor fusion.
From F-15E it takes payload and range.
From F-16 it takes flight performance, dimensions and costs.
Only thing missing really is the supersonic performance of F-22. But the combination of these qualities makes for a really awesome fighter aircraft, including for gaining Air Dominance.
Well said........
Try as people might though a very competent and capable fighter, the F-35 IS NOT a dedicated air-to-air dominance fighter, the F-22 IS. With the proposed upgrades coming down the pipeline, the F-22 will keep its edge over just about anything out there short of the NGAD. Its hard to beat something in a realm where it was purpose built to be there.
Also she just looks better than her younger smaller thicker sister...
- Elite 5K
- Posts: 5298
- Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
- Location: Finland
charlielima223 wrote:Corsair1963 wrote:hornetfinn wrote:That also highlights just what an awesome aircraft F-35 is. It has most of the best qualities of each of these aircraft (F-22, F-16 and F-15E).
From F-22 it takes VLO stealth, really advanced sensors and sensor fusion.
From F-15E it takes payload and range.
From F-16 it takes flight performance, dimensions and costs.
Only thing missing really is the supersonic performance of F-22. But the combination of these qualities makes for a really awesome fighter aircraft, including for gaining Air Dominance.
Well said........
Try as people might though a very competent and capable fighter, the F-35 IS NOT a dedicated air-to-air dominance fighter, the F-22 IS. With the proposed upgrades coming down the pipeline, the F-22 will keep its edge over just about anything out there short of the NGAD. Its hard to beat something in a realm where it was purpose built to be there.
Also she just looks better than her younger smaller thicker sister...
And nobody is claiming otherwise. F-35 is a dedicated multi-role fighter but it is extremely competent and capable also in air-to-air realm. It's not quite as good overall as F-22 at it, but it's easily way better than anything else flying operationally today, including all other dedicated air-to-air fighters (J-20 might be closest but impossible to know how close). I was just pointing out that it's really impressive that F-35 can do so many things so incredibly well. Being 2nd only to F-22 in air-to-air capability, very close to F-15E in ground pounding capability (including payload and range) while having almost identical dimensions and costs to F-16 is just astonishing. So bang for the buck is just incredibly good as found in many evaluations.
I agree that F-22 looks really good and in most angles is even better looking than F-35.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests