F/A-18 vs F-22

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 15 Jul 2017, 15:32

Saw this picture posted on social media. The pilot was the poster (credits to Mr. Anthony Jenkins).

1. First photo was him in a merge with a Raptor
2. Second photo was him saddling up for guns.

According to other posters, this pilot won twice and lost once against this Raptor.

Another perosn said that the the Raptor would not want to go on a slow speed fight against a Rhino unless he had no other options.

But isn't the Raptor better than a Rhino even at slow speed high AOA?

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 15 Jul 2017, 15:53

zero-one wrote:But isn't the Raptor better than a Rhino even at slow speed high AOA?

Should be - unfortunately this kind of thing comes down to the pilots flying the things (assuming it was a 1v1 neutral merge) you cant really get a measure of actual aircraft performance from this.

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 15 Jul 2017, 16:07

Also, the Raptor may be better than the Rhino at low speed, but the advantage is smaller than at high speed.

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 15 Jul 2017, 16:17

"Saddling up" for guns is quite different vs. getting it in the pipper. I dunno. I can just see some Navy Admiral rolling this footage out to buy..... more Super Hornets.

The "more SH's" mantra repeated now for a decade plus makes me wonder if Boeing executives retire to do work for the US Navy, making acqisition decisions.

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 15 Jul 2017, 16:27

mixelflick wrote:"Saddling up" for guns is quite different vs. getting it in the pipper. I dunno. I can just see some Navy Admiral rolling this footage out to buy..... more Super Hornets.

The "more SH's" mantra repeated now for a decade plus makes me wonder if Boeing executives retire to do work for the US Navy, making acqisition decisions.

The pilot did who poseted this just wrote "guns" on the second picture.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 15 Jul 2017, 18:21

T-38s have beaten Raptors, too. It's all scenario driven, to provide training value to the other pilots, while providing a challenge for the Raptor pilots at the same time.

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 16 Jul 2017, 00:49

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Also, the Raptor may be better than the Rhino at low speed, but the advantage is smaller than at high speed.

Ahhh I see, its all about not fighting his fight. Which perfectly explains this statement when Raptors went against Typhoons

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ag-373312/

"the Typhoon has good energy and a pretty good first turn, but that they were able to outmanoeuvre the Germans due to the Raptor's thrust vectoring. Additionally, the Typhoon was not able to match the high angle of attack capability of the F-22. "We ended up with numerous gunshots," another USAF pilot says."

Looks like against an energy fighter like the Typhoon, Raptors like to go slow and use her TVC instead.

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 16 Jul 2017, 04:15

Puh-bleeping-leez...

Some of you guys oughta know better than this.

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 16 Jul 2017, 07:01

It's training, they could be working on specific things not really relevant to a F-22 vs Rhino argument, for all we know the guy flying the F-22 might only have 100 hours at the stick of the Raptor and the rhino pilot has 1,000.

F-16ADF · by **F-16ADF** » 16 Jul 2017, 13:10

Pukin Dogs....

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 16 Jul 2017, 18:35

quicksilver wrote:Puh-bleeping-leez...

Some of you guys oughta know better than this.

This.

The internet still hasn't figured our that losing in training is built into good system. If you ain't losin' you ain't learnin'

35_aoa · by **35_aoa** » 17 Jul 2017, 00:39

More proof the internets will believe anything. First picture at the "merge" looks more like the start of a 3k perch set, in this case, an extremely defensive start for the F-22. Second picture looks like the Raptor is about to neutralize the fight. Just going off the pics posted, don't know the back story.

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 17 Jul 2017, 12:13

Why these things resurface again and again? Any platform can lose to any other platform in practice and it means basically nothing for real world situations. WW2 tank can kill any modern tank in right circumstances but getting there would be almost impossible in real life. Medieval bowman can kill modern soldier in the right environment but that doesn't mean a modern military unit would not simply slaughter huge number of bowmen in real combat and probably would not even take a single casualty. F/A-18 is not a medieval bowman, but a very capable WVR fighter and I'm sure even F-22 pilot has to be careful against it in WVR training. I'm sure all modern fighters have lost in training against trainer jets like Bae Hawk, T-38, Alpha Jet or Aero L-39. That doesn't mean they would lose badly in real world combat.

nutshell · by **nutshell** » 18 Jul 2017, 00:17

Reminds me of that Rafale video:

*The pipper is slightly, briefly over the F22 body*

pilot: "GUNS!GUNS!GUNS!GUNS!GUNS!GUNS!GUNS!FOX1FOX2FOX3GUNSGUNSGUNSGUNS!"

Raptor pilot: "Whatever, mate"

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 18 Jul 2017, 07:10

A Su-22 loosing in a mock dogfight isn't worth any attention, in fact winning in a Su-22 might be worth more attention since no one expects it.

Thats not the case with the Raptor. the mere fact that it is news says a lot about the Raptor's prowess. I mean, it's a Raptor, it's not expected to loose.

heres the back Story. This was posted by a pilot in Social Media. When someone posted a comment saying "so I guess the Raptor ripped you a new one huh" he posted the 2nd pic with the comment saying "Guns".

Another poster who is also in the Navy said, Anthony won twice and lost once against this Raptor. Another said, the F-22 would not want to go low and slow against a Hornet unless it was out of options, which I though was weird since the Raptor is actually better than the Hornet in the low and slow envelope.

But as explained by Sprts.. the Margin isn's as large as in the high and fast department