F-22 and F-152040

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Oct 2016, 14:47

les_paul59 wrote:With 16 a2a missiles plus cft's you aren't going to keep up with an A10 lol

In all seriousness, i think that the radar and the talon hate pod will be funded, i thought i saw that the ew suite isnt planned for install until 2030.....who knows which route the usaf will plan on going


I know that's an exaggeration, but by how much?
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Oct 2016, 14:48

SpudmanWP wrote:Imagine an F-35 using the same LO pods as the "Advanced Super Hornet"...

22 AMRAAMs in an LO/VLO platform


Ooooh, never thought of that :)
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Unread post17 Oct 2016, 03:05

mixelflick wrote:
les_paul59 wrote:With 16 a2a missiles plus cft's you aren't going to keep up with an A10 lol


I know that's an exaggeration, but by how much?


Quite.

CFTs had a DI of 4 on the F-15C (includes launchers for four AAMs)
Wing pylons have a DI of 3.3 each (four of them now)
Launch rails have a DI of 1.1 each (twelve of them)
Wing mounted AIM-120 has a DI of 2.4 (twelve of them) (there will likely be interference drag too)
CFT mounted AIM-120 has a DI of 1.2 (four of them)

Total DI is only 64.4 as listed (lets up it to 75 for interference)
Full fuel will be around 63,500lb.
Optimum cruise speed is around 0.85M between 33,000ft and 44,000ft for weights of 63,500lb and 40,000lb (full fuel and empty fuel) with nm/lb between 0.06 and 0.09 (average 0.075 nm/lb for 23,000+lb of fuel) gives a theoretical max range of 1,725nm (has NO accounting for reserves or mission or ANYTHING, full to empty at opt cruise)

This is all with the standard F100-PW-220. The highest listed DI on the flight envelopes is 33.5 for CFT, (4) AIM-7, (4) AIM-9), CL Pylon. Max speed is 1.7M for 0.03g acceleration. If I move back to STD+10C Max Speed is 1.4+ for 0.03g acceleration. These missile truck Eagles will NOT have fast dash capability without upgrading to -229 engines but they can cruise well.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post17 Oct 2016, 08:33

Honestly, after 2025 I expect the remainder of the F-15C's to be retired rather quickly. As new built F-35A's will become far more attractive.....


Good example of this was when the USN accelerated the retirement of the F-14 Tomcat for new Super Hornets. :wink:
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madrat

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Unread post17 Oct 2016, 13:22

It makes more sense to retire F-16's before F-15's.
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Unread post17 Oct 2016, 21:42

If you think about the role it makes great sense.

Once F-35 is around F-15 won't be riding shotgun on strike missions. It would give away too many advantages. So you are left with using them to defend things and areas you can't hide. Have them ride shotgun with tankers and AWACS. Fly additional top cover for bases and friendly airspace. For that it makes a lot of sense. It can loiter and dash to where it's needed unload and head home. It has a big radar if F-22/35 aren't around and data links if they are. It frees the stealth platforms to do what you need hem to do rather than having to fly defensive counter air missions.

Makes good sense to me.
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count_to_10

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Unread post17 Oct 2016, 23:17

madrat wrote:It makes more sense to retire F-16's before F-15's.

I'm not sure. Certainly the F-15E's are going to be around for a while, but the F-15C's are much older than a lot of the F-16's.
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les_paul59

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Unread post18 Oct 2016, 00:21

the f15c and e for that matter will be used in lower threat situations, they aren't the tip of the spear anymore. But damn most countries wouldn't mind having the f-15 as their 3rd best option that for sure.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post18 Oct 2016, 01:21

les_paul59 wrote:the f-15 as their 3rd best option that for sure.

Perspective huh?
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wrightwing

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Unread post18 Oct 2016, 02:21

Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, after 2025 I expect the remainder of the F-15C's to be retired rather quickly. As new built F-35A's will become far more attractive.....


Good example of this was when the USN accelerated the retirement of the F-14 Tomcat for new Super Hornets. :wink:

The primary mission for the F-35 isn't air superiority. If the USAF has to allocate F-35s in that role, that leaves fewer for strike missions. Keeping F-15s to augment F-22s increases magazine depth, while allowing for maximum number of strike assets.
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Unread post18 Oct 2016, 02:25

Basically the rejuvenated Eagles are a bandaid to fill the capabilty gap that arose when the hoped-for number of Raptors never materialized. They will remain relevant assets for the long-term regardless of the number of F-35s procured.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 Oct 2016, 12:33

I dunno if I'd retire those F-16's so hastily...

In a similar fashion to the F-15E's, they're very useful swing fighters that can be used for a2a and a2ground. It's a hell of a dogfighter, bombing platform and as one pilot told me, "Give me a big mouth F-16 with 4AAM's and I'd put it up against anything in a dogfight...".

Of course, dogfighting is the last thing they're trained to do nowadays. I guess there's always going to be a part of the air force that doesn't make the 5th gen jump. They think it'll work, but nobody's quite sure. Thus, keeping large #'s of F-16's around would seem prudent until such time as the F-35 is combat proven.

And the day it waxes a few Flankers en route to bombing a target I'll be celebrating. Hell, even passing through un-noticed would be a victory IMO. The Israeli's can't get it into action fast enough, I think.

Then you'll see its first air to air kills...
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