Admitted: F-22 won most of the WVR fights against Rafale

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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post20 May 2016, 16:28

This states both the vague drop tank statement and the specific 6 Mica 1.4M statement
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gta4

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Unread post20 May 2016, 18:02

In french-french dictionary, "s'en sortir (se sortir de)" means "surmonter, reussir" :mrgreen:
Non of these two means "to escape". The first one means "to come out on top (to have an edge on)", the second one means "to succeed in" .
Some french speakers need to hone their English to find the correct English counterparts for French-English translation.
french-french translation.jpg
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gta4

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Unread post20 May 2016, 18:06

Ironically, French-French dictionary gives "y parvenir, y arriver" (to achieve, to arrive) as synonyms of "se sortir de". Does any of these mean "to escape"?
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alex_f

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Unread post20 May 2016, 18:38

gta4 wrote:In french-french dictionary, "s'en sortir (se sortir de)" means "surmonter, reussir" :mrgreen:
Non of these two means "to escape". The first one means "to come out on top (to have an edge on)", the second one means "to succeed in" .
Some french speakers need to hone their English to find the correct English counterparts for French-English translation.


OK, so let's translate the three provided examples:
1) He got into drugs, but managed to get out
2) She got away with a few broken ribs, almost a miracle considering the height of the drop
3) It doesn't look too difficoult, I think I can handle it

There are still several shades how to translate a situation where someone wins, but "s'en sortir" doesn't sound like it was a piece of cake. At least in the three examples, and the same in the F-22-article.

My (french native) wife confirmed, it's not meant as it was easy, more like "I found somehow a way to finish it". Surmonter in German, my native language, means "überwinden", which means "get over", or "overcome". Not meant it was effortless either.
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gta4

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Unread post20 May 2016, 19:25

alex_f wrote:
gta4 wrote:In french-french dictionary, "s'en sortir (se sortir de)" means "surmonter, reussir" :mrgreen:
Non of these two means "to escape". The first one means "to come out on top (to have an edge on)", the second one means "to succeed in" .
Some french speakers need to hone their English to find the correct English counterparts for French-English translation.


OK, so let's translate the three provided examples:
1) He got into drugs, but managed to get out
2) She got away with a few broken ribs, almost a miracle considering the height of the drop
3) It doesn't look too difficoult, I think I can handle it

There are still several shades how to translate a situation where someone wins, but "s'en sortir" doesn't sound like it was a piece of cake. At least in the three examples, and the same in the F-22-article.

My (french native) wife confirmed, it's not meant as it was easy, more like "I found somehow a way to finish it". Surmonter in German, my native language, means "überwinden", which means "get over", or "overcome". Not meant it was effortless either.


Good. You can ask your wife if the following french paragraph means "F-22 used gun to kill Rafale without much difficulty".
french-french translation 2.jpg
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dirtcatcher

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Unread post20 May 2016, 23:42

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:This states both the vague drop tank statement and the specific 6 Mica 1.4M statement



That seems quite impressive considering the available dry thrust.
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vanshilar

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Unread post20 May 2016, 23:55

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:This states both the vague drop tank statement and the specific 6 Mica 1.4M statement


However, note that it's saying the Rafale can supercruise at unspecified speed with 4 missiles and a drop tank, and the naval variant (Rafale M) can supercruise at Mach 1.4 with 6 missiles (no drop tank).

(Just bringing this up because I've seen people claiming this means that the Rafale can supercruise at M 1.4 with 4 missiles and a drop tank.)
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alex_f

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Unread post21 May 2016, 05:10

gta4 wrote:Good. You can ask your wife if the following french paragraph means "F-22 used gun to kill Rafale without much difficulty".
french-french translation 2.jpg


Please quote the whole sentence: F-22 used gun to kill Rafale without much difficulty at least twice.

Without knowing how many flights were done, this is rather useless info. But it says that the F-22 must have a good EW suite, as they launched the AIM-120 without need to switch on their radar. Which doesn't come as a big surprise, I guess.

By the way, what is the source?
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sferrin

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Unread post21 May 2016, 06:40

alex_f wrote:But it says that the F-22 must have a good EW suite, as they launched the AIM-120 without need to switch on their radar.


That's the ALR-94 party trick.
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gta4

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Unread post21 May 2016, 08:52

alex_f wrote:
gta4 wrote:Good. You can ask your wife if the following french paragraph means "F-22 used gun to kill Rafale without much difficulty".
french-french translation 2.jpg


Please quote the whole sentence: F-22 used gun to kill Rafale without much difficulty at least twice.

Without knowing how many flights were done, this is rather useless info. But it says that the F-22 must have a good EW suite, as they launched the AIM-120 without need to switch on their radar. Which doesn't come as a big surprise, I guess.

By the way, what is the source?


The source is the A/C magazine, vol. 2010/2, right after the ALTC exercise.
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gta4

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Unread post21 May 2016, 08:56

The big surprise is that, during the indian MMRCA competition, only Typhoon was confirmed to have supercuise capability after flight test. Rafale wasn't.

Is it due to the India atmosphere (which is definitely hotter than standard atmosphere and has a negative impact on aircraft performance)?
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mixelflick

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Unread post21 May 2016, 13:03

Mach 1.4 with AAM's is impressive.

Does it have legs? Generally speaking.. I've heard no complaints, but rather doubt it has F-35 like range considering its size and use of 2 engines. F-22 range perhaps?

It's clear somewhat of a compromise was made on the F-22's range. Outside of the Pacific theater, I don't see it as a major concern..
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basher54321

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Unread post21 May 2016, 13:36

gta4 wrote:The big surprise is that, during the indian MMRCA competition, only Typhoon was confirmed to have supercuise capability after flight test. Rafale wasn't.


Did they define Supercruise as being >=M1.5?
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gta4

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Unread post21 May 2016, 18:49

basher54321 wrote:
gta4 wrote:The big surprise is that, during the indian MMRCA competition, only Typhoon was confirmed to have supercuise capability after flight test. Rafale wasn't.


Did they define Supercruise as being >=M1.5?


You think Typhoon could to that? Even the Eurofighter company won't make that bold claim.
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Unread post22 May 2016, 05:19

Since i'm not much biased, i'd have to be honest in the video the Rafale had, let's say, a couple of POSSIBLE gun kills.

Now, think about this: that was a pre upgrade and PRE RSP F22 with RCS booster and still ghosting the tracker of the Rafale's radar twice at such a short range.

So expensive it could bankrupt half of the world but still goddamn scary. Oh Raptor...
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