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Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2016, 01:00
by les_paul59
yeah during testing of the f-35 with block 3f, it will become evident that the f-15 can't compete against the f-35

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2016, 01:13
by popcorn
It's evolved beyond individual platform capabilities, it's all about the Network going forward.

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2016, 02:35
by count_to_10
les_paul59 wrote:The raptor is the ultimate air to air machine, so it is going to fly top cover for everyone in reality, but I get your point. The f-35 is changing the way the air force fights as a organization all together. At this point they are going to upgrade and fly the f-15 because it has hours left on the airframe, and they need it to fill a short term gap in fighters.

Well, the F-15's can also carry the F-35's missiles.
(Insert reference to man holding his girlfriend's purse here)

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2016, 02:56
by quicksilver
les_paul59 wrote:yeah during testing of the f-35 with block 3f, it will become evident that the f-15 can't compete against the f-35


Actually it was evident to test guys well over a year ago, and to the fleet guys when they got 2B last year. With more recent expansion of released aero envelope they gained the wherewithal to exploit all of its other advantages as well.

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2016, 04:22
by les_paul59
we know that the f-15 can't hang with the 35, but once the public starts getting leaked test reports that the f-35 had a 70-1 kill ratio against agressor f-15's (hypothetical results), then i think everyone will understand how much of a leap 4th to 5th gen. really is.

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 16 May 2016, 13:57
by mixelflick
les_paul59 wrote:we know that the f-15 can't hang with the 35, but once the public starts getting leaked test reports that the f-35 had a 70-1 kill ratio against agressor f-15's (hypothetical results), then i think everyone will understand how much of a leap 4th to 5th gen. really is.


I wouldn't take as a given F-35 trumps the F-15 15. Pilots make mistakes, and if the F-15 gets to the merge he has HOBS missile and the F-35 won't...

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 16 May 2016, 17:55
by les_paul59
I'm not affiliated w/ the usaf in anyway mixelflick, but I'm pretty sure that the f-15's aren't going to fare to well against the BVR shots, or know where the f-35's are to merge. That's the thing people always forget, it's tough to merge with something that you can't find...

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 16 May 2016, 21:09
by vanshilar
les_paul59 wrote:That's the thing people always forget, it's tough to merge with something that you can't find...


Actually, I suspect that with stealth aircraft, pilots will find that when entering the merge they'll usually be found on your tail...

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 17 May 2016, 12:24
by mixelflick
les_paul59 wrote:I'm not affiliated w/ the usaf in anyway mixelflick, but I'm pretty sure that the f-15's aren't going to fare to well against the BVR shots, or know where the f-35's are to merge. That's the thing people always forget, it's tough to merge with something that you can't find...


Quite true.

Still, that puts virtually ALL the F-35's eggs in stealth's basket. They must be super-confident it works now and will continue to do so, well into the future..

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 17 May 2016, 12:53
by sferrin
mixelflick wrote:Still, that puts virtually ALL the F-35's eggs in stealth's basket.


Have you read anything said by actual F-35 pilots? :doh:

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 17 May 2016, 16:13
by wrightwing
mixelflick wrote:
les_paul59 wrote:we know that the f-15 can't hang with the 35, but once the public starts getting leaked test reports that the f-35 had a 70-1 kill ratio against agressor f-15's (hypothetical results), then i think everyone will understand how much of a leap 4th to 5th gen. really is.


I wouldn't take as a given F-35 trumps the F-15 15. Pilots make mistakes, and if the F-15 gets to the merge he has HOBS missile and the F-35 won't...

Eh, the F-35 also carries HOBS missiles (that's the premise of LOAL/spherical engagement.)

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 17 May 2016, 16:16
by wrightwing
mixelflick wrote:
les_paul59 wrote:I'm not affiliated w/ the usaf in anyway mixelflick, but I'm pretty sure that the f-15's aren't going to fare to well against the BVR shots, or know where the f-35's are to merge. That's the thing people always forget, it's tough to merge with something that you can't find...


Quite true.

Still, that puts virtually ALL the F-35's eggs in stealth's basket. They must be super-confident it works now and will continue to do so, well into the future..

Much like the Russians and Chinese, etc...that are working on their own stealth designs.

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2016, 04:41
by les_paul59
@mixelflick, stealth isn't just flying anywhere without regard for enemy sensors. It's an entire strategy of how you operate, stealth jets are always trying to present the best angle to the enemy to keep their rcs low, and the f-35 sensors are so much better than every other jet, knowing where enemies are won't be the problem. My point is the f-35 isn't just about stealth, it's about flying a smart stealthy jet in an intelligent way.

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2016, 12:20
by mixelflick
les_paul59 wrote:@mixelflick, stealth isn't just flying anywhere without regard for enemy sensors. It's an entire strategy of how you operate, stealth jets are always trying to present the best angle to the enemy to keep their rcs low, and the f-35 sensors are so much better than every other jet, knowing where enemies are won't be the problem. My point is the f-35 isn't just about stealth, it's about flying a smart stealthy jet in an intelligent way.


OK, understand. Just hope these Russian radars can't find it or if they do, can't track/lock on for a launch. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be a REAL nervous SU-35/PAK FA pilot knowing the F-35 can see me and I may not be able to see him (until it's too late)...

Re: Restarting F-22 production

Unread postPosted: 18 May 2016, 17:13
by les_paul59
I agree, it must be really scary to know there are probably jets out there that can see me, but I have no ability to target them.