F-22 vs Rafale dogfight results - French souce

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aquietguy

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Unread post12 Jun 2016, 15:05

wil59 wrote:
avon1944 wrote:Has anyone takened a look at the HUD of the Rafale (the same thing for a T-38 and, a F-16) in other aerial exercises. I took a good close look to try and READ THE HUD of the T-38. The T-38 is around 15Kft, air speed 410kts, AoA ≈6 ° and, pull 5+ G's! When the F-22A became operational, its ceiling was 60K.ft. and it could maneuver at high speeds, since then the ceiling has been raised! What is the F-22A doing in this enviroment? Is it providing training for the T-38 pilot or, trying to be creative to get away at these low speeds and altitudes! I have pictures of French Rafales that went to the Netherlands to exercise with their AF's F-4 Phantoms, several other European country's AF attended. I have several nice pictures of the Luftwaffe F-4 Phantoms that were parading around with kill markings of Rafales after the exercise. Another exercise many years earlier where the PLAAF's Su-27s were being shot down in BVR combat by Turkish A.F. F-4 Phantoms, ROEs?
Group Captain M. W. J. CHAPPELL brought a group of six Typhoons to an Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico. The Typhoons would test or evaluate their radars, ECM and, ECCM equiptment without Russian reconn forces ease dropping. Later Gr. Capt. Mark Chappell stated that the thing he hated about combat against the F-22A was, that he could look through his canopy and see an F-22 but, couldn't get a weapons lock-on it! I wondered if other fighters in they same situation have this problem?

F-22A Vs T-38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ (Read the HUD at 0:03Secs) - HUD ___ AoA - 5.4, Speed 424kts., Altitude 17, 20,000ft., etc. Why is the F-22A playing with a T-38 at this speed - altitude region? ROEs?

F-22 vs Rafale dogfight (In French but, try and read the HUD).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioTTnjxNc7o
It looks like the altitude is -13950m or is that feet? If 13,950m = 45,337ft., on the lower right side of the HUD it looks like the Rafale pulled 7+Gs and, while the F-22A looses this encounter throughout the engagement I have HUDs screen movements that were faster such the engagement between the Mirage 2000 versus an F-16C. Find out the rules of engagement and you will a better idea of what really happened unfortunately, the ROEs are seldom mention.

What is your problem guys! the fact you still talked about this article says a lot about you! The fact is mere 5 draw and 1 win for the F-22! when you compare the price of each plane there is nothing decked lol


The question is how many Rafale's would be lost BVR before the knife fight?
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uclass

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Unread post12 Jun 2016, 15:41

aquietguy wrote:The question is how many Rafale's would be lost BVR before the knife fight?

All of them.
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les_paul59

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Unread post14 Jun 2016, 18:43

the rafales would never even know they were being targeted by the raptors until the amramms turned on their radars
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avon1944

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Unread post15 Jun 2016, 09:31

avon1944

It appears as though many responders do not understand what the R.O.E.s are all about! They are rules of conduct that enable a lower performance fighter to compete with a high performance fighter . . . . THAT's ALL!
It is not a comparison on who has the biggest balls! It is all about providing good training for both pilots. That is why the T-38 is able to remain on the tail of the F-22.
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les_paul59

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Unread post15 Jun 2016, 18:21

my mistake, I forgot the rafale had the ir maws system. But even still, if you don't know the raptor is even around until your maws detects a bvr amramm coming towards you, it doesn't look good for the rafale in bvr against the raptor
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wil59

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Unread post15 Jun 2016, 22:46

les_paul59 wrote:my mistake, I forgot the rafale had the ir maws system. But even still, if you don't know the raptor is even around until your maws detects a bvr amramm coming towards you, it doesn't look good for the rafale in bvr against the raptor

yes the F-22 may be the best aircraft dominated the skies, but the burst may be the best aircraft 4.5 generation is I think better than 5 Russian or Chinese generation! Burst has better sensor; avionics; data fusion; AESA radar, and the best result ew, and has already demonstrated the ability in the field, can be used from aircraft carrier, can increased 1.5 times its weight in bomb and fuel c ' is really a very good flight! Only sinners will both the criticism and say yes but! ok but had better be saying it is already going to the field? (Pack-fa f-35 j-10b etc.)
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gta4

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Unread post16 Jun 2016, 22:07

To wi59:

"5 draws and 1 win for F22" is from the claim of rafale pilots. Is this credible? We all know that a man cannot act as the witness of his own case. He has the motivation to make false testimony.

Since other french sources claim "F-22 gun killed the Rafale at least twice", the claim of Rafale pilots could not prove anything. He has the motivation to make false testimony.
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nutshell

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Unread post17 Jun 2016, 01:29

Pak-fa is a sexy myth, sadly

Ehy no hate guys, i'm italian, i value the aesthetics a lot and russians frames are delightful :P .

Btw i just see (i'm late) the spin tail maneuver video performed by a F22.

That was SICK.
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wil59

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Unread post17 Jun 2016, 09:49

gta4 wrote:To wi59:

"5 draws and 1 win for F22" is from the claim of rafale pilots. Is this credible? We all know that a man cannot act as the witness of his own case. He has the motivation to make false testimony.

Since other french sources claim "F-22 gun killed the Rafale at least twice", the claim of Rafale pilots could not prove anything. He has the motivation to make false testimony.
Open your eyes and look at all the sources say it is 5 draw and 1 win! but also have french 1 victory disputed by us is why the french have posted video 1 to restore the truth that would be the legitimate one kill! and you will say that the french driver are a liar! the German driver who claimed their victory over F-22 are also lying!? you're gonna say they had the chanse and in the Eurofighter real fight would be dead! you can not admit that the F-22 is not invincible; it has countered the tactic for stealthy as married flew low and the relief which makes it difficult for same f-22 found so! you say that f-22 is better than any other aircraft ok proves me has he done on the field! I can give you an example the blast destroyed a target 55 kilometers with 1 AASM; like a boring fact: http://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/ar ... les-166808
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gta4

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Unread post17 Jun 2016, 19:17

but also have french 1 victory disputed by us is why the french have posted video 1 to restore the truth that would be the legitimate one kill!


How many times do I need to say this?

1) That video is 3-minute long, but the F-22 only appeared at the front hemisphere of the Rafale for only 20 seconds. What happened for the rest of the time? The french people won't let us know.

2) That is not a kill, because that was a gunfight which requires the crosshair to overlay the target, which did not happen.

I think you would argue that if it was a missile fight....

If it was a missile fight, F-22 would use other tactics (such as high AOA pointing) to gain missile lock opportunity.

F-22 adopts different tactics in different rules of engagements. That's it,end of the line.


The proof: French air force did not interpret this as a KILL.

French air force never says it had gained any dogfight victories on F-22 (some draws, one or two defeat, no victories). French officials never claimed any dogfight victories on F-22! This clearly indicates that the dogfight in the video was not a victory. Ahahahahahahahaha.

3) There are other FRENCH sources claiming that F-22 used gun to kill the Rafale at least twice without much difficulties. Are you ignorant?
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gta4

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Unread post17 Jun 2016, 21:22

I have other french sources claiming that the "F-22 gun killed the Rafale easily at least twice", and our french friend wil59 is ignoring this.

I have other french sources claiming that the F-22 "come out on top for most dogfight situations against rafale", and our french friend wil59 is again ignoring this :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

All he has is a 3-minute video showing that F-22 appeared in front of the Rafale for only 20 seconds. What happened for the rest of the time? :mrgreen:

Poor french!
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wil59

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Unread post18 Jun 2016, 10:07

gta4 wrote:I have other french sources claiming that the "F-22 gun killed the Rafale easily at least twice", and our french friend wil59 is ignoring this.

I have other french sources claiming that the F-22 "come out on top for most dogfight situations against rafale", and our french friend wil59 is again ignoring this :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

All he has is a 3-minute video showing that F-22 appeared in front of the Rafale for only 20 seconds. What happened for the rest of the time? :mrgreen:

Poor french!
or you saw 2 victory? in your imagination lol
http://defence.pk/threads/rafales-aeria ... in.181014/
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madrat

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Unread post18 Jun 2016, 12:32

Stop trolling. This garbage was debated ad naseum and the French sources admitted the pictures were not from the 1v1s. Wishful thinking to regurgitate the vomit... seven years late.
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gta4

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Unread post18 Jun 2016, 18:30

wil59 wrote:
gta4 wrote:I have other french sources claiming that the "F-22 gun killed the Rafale easily at least twice", and our french friend wil59 is ignoring this.

I have other french sources claiming that the F-22 "come out on top for most dogfight situations against rafale", and our french friend wil59 is again ignoring this :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

All he has is a 3-minute video showing that F-22 appeared in front of the Rafale for only 20 seconds. What happened for the rest of the time? :mrgreen:

Poor french!
or you saw 2 victory? in your imagination lol
http://defence.pk/threads/rafales-aeria ... in.181014/


Please explain this:

Image

French used to admitted F-22 gained at least 2 victories in dogfights.

French also admitted tha F-22 came out on top for most dogfights.
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wil59

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Unread post20 Jun 2016, 17:10

gta4 wrote:
wil59 wrote:
gta4 wrote:I have other french sources claiming that the "F-22 gun killed the Rafale easily at least twice", and our french friend wil59 is ignoring this.

I have other french sources claiming that the F-22 "come out on top for most dogfight situations against rafale", and our french friend wil59 is again ignoring this :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

All he has is a 3-minute video showing that F-22 appeared in front of the Rafale for only 20 seconds. What happened for the rest of the time? :mrgreen:

Poor french!
or you saw 2 victory? in your imagination lol
http://defence.pk/threads/rafales-aeria ... in.181014/


Please explain this:

Image

French used to admitted F-22 gained at least 2 victories in dogfights.

French also admitted tha F-22 came out on top for most dogfights.
um, you should have a stealthy brain lad, and I'll tell you or not stealth aircraft generates heat and Electro- Magnetic show! more a missile fired over 50 kilometer can have very lucky to hit an opponent with a series of last order! over a plane and never alone so if the same stealth graduation opponent has a good chance it has identified are round! stealth she served however until now? 3 generation aircraft do the job in Iraq or in Syria! have you not understood that the current war are asymmetric warfare and stealth aircraft is useless for this kind of warfare! All this is just marketing to impose a new norm is spent even more relevant that the nations that have the ability to build fighter aircraft lost this advantage and become dependent on countries with ilimité expenditure for R & D! This is what will come to Europe will become US dependent see what is happening with the United States, Italy, Belgium, Spain or will they bought f-35 when they could have bought européein was beneficial for the industry
they will lose their ability to build fighter jets and will be dependent usa; veiled please consider France as a scope statement has preferred to make a versatile aircraft and thus kept its independence as the usa have kept theirs!
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