F-22 vs Rafale dogfight results - French souce

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garrya

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Unread post20 Mar 2017, 14:42

niafron wrote:I wasn't saying it was a test... simply, it show how confident was the french air force cause the loss of one single plane would have been a media disaster.

And the french planes circled above Libya for a while.

US and UK airstrikes were conducted only after Tomahawk missiles rained heavily... :wink:

Didn't they do the strike only a few hours later ?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... y-dawn.htm
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niafron

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Unread post20 Mar 2017, 15:54

If my memory is correct, the french raid started few time after noon, and the planes remained 2 or 3 hours above Libya. Then, the main missile strike occured after nightfall and several airstrikes were conducted all over the night.

Aside of the plan, the French Raid was decided in emergency as a bold move to prevent the fall of Benghazi ( it was a matter of hours...).

@Uclass

It is said an SA 8 targeted " the french raid", as you pointed it yourself, wasn't only Rafale there... There's no details about this plane and more important, what kind of mission it performed.

And if Mirage 2000 were involved as well, we don't know either if they assumed the same level of risk Rafale did.

However, the whole document is a good reading, for it point out how different are French and US philosophy about how to conduct an operation.
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uclass

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Unread post20 Mar 2017, 20:29

niafron wrote:If my memory is correct, the french raid started few time after noon, and the planes remained 2 or 3 hours above Libya. Then, the main missile strike occured after nightfall and several airstrikes were conducted all over the night.

Aside of the plan, the French Raid was decided in emergency as a bold move to prevent the fall of Benghazi ( it was a matter of hours...).

@Uclass

It is said an SA 8 targeted " the french raid", as you pointed it yourself, wasn't only Rafale there... There's no details about this plane and more important, what kind of mission it performed.

And if Mirage 2000 were involved as well, we don't know either if they assumed the same level of risk Rafale did.

However, the whole document is a good reading, for it point out how different are French and US philosophy about how to conduct an operation.

True but it indicates that the threat level was virtually zero. 1960s RFCLOS systems, which is basically the pin the tail on the donkey version of missile guidance. On a good day, these missiles were designed to be able to hit 1960s bombers and planes that had no ECM/ESM whatsoever, or even MAWS. Huge SA-2s with a kill radius of 120m, only managed a 2% kill rate against lumbering B-52s during the Vietnam War, and most of those kills were by simply bursting unguided missiles at altitude. The US had already figured out how to jam that radar technology 45 years ago.
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niafron

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Unread post22 Mar 2017, 17:30

If the threat level was virtually zero, what the hell U.S.N and Royal navy launched 100 + missiles over Libya prior to any aircraft engagement?

Cause it was a discount on Tomahawks?

Honnestly, the threat was indeed low, but US and UK didn't take any chances when the french air force judged the Rafale was fine enough to make the job without any preventive strike.
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uclass

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Unread post22 Mar 2017, 18:40

niafron wrote:If the threat level was virtually zero, what the hell U.S.N and Royal navy launched 100 + missiles over Libya prior to any aircraft engagement?

Cause it was a discount on Tomahawks?

Honnestly, the threat was indeed low, but US and UK didn't take any chances when the french air force judged the Rafale was fine enough to make the job without any preventive strike.

Quite simply because it would have been political suicide to do otherwise and because it's standard war-fighting doctrine. SEAD/DEAD always comes first. That aside, all missiles have a shelf life. :wink:

A DRFM system is easily capable of duping legacy SAM systems, especially ones that it's actually likely to have been tested against during development.
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halloweene

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Unread post23 Mar 2017, 22:06

uclass wrote:
niafron wrote:If the threat level was virtually zero, what the hell U.S.N and Royal navy launched 100 + missiles over Libya prior to any aircraft engagement?

Cause it was a discount on Tomahawks?

Honnestly, the threat was indeed low, but US and UK didn't take any chances when the french air force judged the Rafale was fine enough to make the job without any preventive strike.

Quite simply because it would have been political suicide to do otherwise and because it's standard war-fighting doctrine. SEAD/DEAD always comes first. That aside, all missiles have a shelf life. :wink:

A DRFM system is easily capable of duping legacy SAM systems, especially ones that it's actually likely to have been tested against during development.


And Mirage 2000 D do not have DRFMs... Coming here to display same ignorance as on indian forums bmd?
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uclass

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Unread post24 Mar 2017, 16:48

halloweene wrote:
And Mirage 2000 D do not have DRFMs... Coming here to display same ignorance as on indian forums bmd?

I don't know, it seems to be you who thinks that LRIP retrofits and mods and changes on LRIP 7 F-35s are part of FRP unit costs. You know, you could just look up the meaning of LRIP.

That aside, that's exactly my point, even legacy aircraft without anything like up-to-date EW were in that flight, so using it as an example of the Rafale's capabilities is absurd.
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talkitron

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Unread post24 Mar 2017, 20:00

Just a nice listing of facts about various versions of the Rafale:

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2017/03/ ... nched.html
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popcorn

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Unread post24 Mar 2017, 23:49

The Rafale is getting more expensive.

http://www.defencetalk.com/dassault-avi ... ard-69571/
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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