F-22 in Syria

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1300
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post29 Nov 2015, 10:47

Anyone know how many are available?

Given the situation with Turkey/Russia, S-400's in the mix, one would think it'd be prudent...
Offline

charlielima223

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 713
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post29 Nov 2015, 13:34

Image
Offline

gideonic

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 172
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2015, 13:54

Unread post29 Nov 2015, 13:54

Yeah i just wondered, whether you would like us to answer or email the info directly to putin@fsb.ru :D
Offline
User avatar

neptune

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1985
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2008, 00:03
  • Location: Houston

Unread post29 Nov 2015, 17:18

mixelflick wrote:..Given the situation with Turkey/Russia, S-400's in the mix, one would think it'd be prudent...


...or opportune! :)
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1300
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post29 Nov 2015, 20:11

gideonic wrote:Yeah i just wondered, whether you would like us to answer or email the info directly to putin@fsb.ru :D


CC to my boy Vladimir would be fantastic.

Thanks :oops:
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6450
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 02:20

Raptors with improved SA and weaponry deploy over Syria.

https://theaviationist.com/2016/07/05/t ... ing-daesh/

The most up-to-date F-22 Raptor jets are currently fighting Daesh


The Raptors deployed to Al Dhafra airbase, UAE, are the most up-to-date F-22As flown by the U.S. Air Force.

Assigned to the 90th Fighter Squadron from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, the modernized Raptors made their debut in Operation Inherent Resolve, the air war on the Islamic State, in April, bringing expanded capabilities in the fight against Daesh.

“What our squadron is bringing to the fight now versus some of the previous squadrons, is we have the most up to date software and hardware loads that an F-22 can carry,” said Lt. Col. David, 90th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron commander in a recent Air Force release. “There is a huge advancement in the capabilities of the avionics, the radar system, the sensors and certain electronic features on board the aircraft.”

Although they are rarely requested to attack ground targets, the Alaskan Raptors can now drop 8 GBU-39 small diameter bombs while previously they were limited to carry two 1,000-lb GBU-32 JDAMs (Joint Direct Attack Munitions) in the internal weapon bay: with the latest upgrade they can be tasked for missions which require greater precision.

An initial air-to-surface capability, including that of dropping the GBU-39 (a 250-lb multipurpose, insensitive, penetrating, blast-fragmentation warhead for stationary targets equipped with deployable wings for extended standoff range, whose integration testing started in 2007) had been introduced with the software increment 3.1 back in 2012.

Even though the odds of using an advanced air-to-air missiles over Syria are pretty low, another important addition to the F-22’s payload is the latest generation AIM-9X (already integrated in most of US combat planes since 2003): on Mar. 1, 2016 the 90th Fighter Squadron (FS) officially became the first combat-operational Raptor unit to equip an F-22 with the AIM-9X Sidewinder.

Noteworthy, the AIM-9X will not be coupled to a Helmet Mounted Display (HMD) as the F-22 is not equipped with such kind of helmet that provides the essential flight and weapon aiming information through line of sight imagery (the project to implement it was axed following 2013 budget cuts) but the Raptor will probably benefit of the AIM-9X Block II, that is expected to feature a Lock-on After Launch capability with a datalink, for Helmetless High Off-Boresight (HHOBS): the air-to-air missile will be launched first and then directed to its target afterwards even though it is behind the launching aircraft.

Interestingly, along with the ability to carry “new” weapons, the aircraft were also given a radar upgrade that enhanced the F-22 capabilities in the realm of air interdiction and the so-called “kinetic situational awareness”: as we have often explained in previous articles, the role that the Raptor plays in the campaign is to use advanced onboard sensors, such as the AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar, to gather valuable details about the enemy targets, then share the “picture” with attack planes as the F-15E Strike Eagles.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

talkitron

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 147
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 02:55

popcorn wrote:Even though the odds of using an advanced air-to-air missiles over Syria are pretty low, another important addition to the F-22’s payload is the latest generation AIM-9X (already integrated in most of US combat planes since 2003): on Mar. 1, 2016 the 90th Fighter Squadron (FS) officially became the first combat-operational Raptor unit to equip an F-22 with the AIM-9X Sidewinder.


The phrase to equip an F-22 is lawyerly. It means one AIM-9X was loaded on one F-22A from Alaska once. Who knows how many Alaskan Raptors routinely fly with AIM-9X and whether those in Syria use it? This GAO summary of major defense programs says that the IOC for F-22 Increment 3.2B, which includes AIM-9X, is September 2019. It is always possible that the specific capability to launch AIM-9X may be brought forward compared to other aspects of Increment 3.2B, but a lawyerly statement in the quoted article is not good evidence of that happening.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676281.pdf
Offline
User avatar

mangler-muldoon

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 22:43

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 03:02

As far as OPSEC is concerned, Syria aught to be a goldmine for both the U.S. and Russia with respect to collection on each other's latest hardware. Open sources are unlikely to change that. Arguably, the most relevant Update 5 enhancement to Syria, which includes AIM-9X Block I separate from Increment 3.1 (3.2B adds AIM-9X Block II), is Mode 5th to 4th generation IFDL capability (IFDL GWY Mode). Without a BACN aircraft in the vicinity, Raptor pilots previously had to resort to using VHF/UHF radio to communicate with older aircraft:

"The fourth and fifth gen pilots have figured out 'how to integrate tactics…without that shared data link' through the use of 'contracts' regarding who will do what and when. The pilots are then 'able to pass very specific things over traditional UHF [and] VHF radios, to where not only can we execute the mission, but…at the same level, as if we were sharing information perfectly'”. - http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... 316f22.pdf

Same article also states F-22s have been able to operate within close proximity to Russian and Syrian forces without being detected:

"Russian and Syrian pilots are 'interested' in the F-22, and may have tried maneuvering close by to see how the jet operates, but 'because of our sophisticated avionics and…stealth and…supercruise and maneuverability,' there’s 'not a time where we allow Syrians or Russians to see us or influence us in any way without us choosing for them to do that,' Anhalt explained. He said there were 'some incidents…early on' in which F-22s had to steer coalition air packages away from the Syrian or Russian jets and 'we were very close to them and they never realized it'." [emphasis added]
Attachments
Tatical Mandates.jpg
Offline

talkitron

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 147
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 03:16

mangler-muldoon wrote: Arguably, the most relevant Update 5 enhancement to Syria, which includes AIM-9X Block I separate from Increment 3.1 (3.2B adds AIM-9X Block II),


Thanks for the correction.
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6450
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 03:23

mangler-muldoon wrote:As far as OPSEC is concerned, Syria aught to be a goldmine for both the U.S. and Russia with respect to collection on each other's latest hardware. Open sources are unlikely to change that. Arguably, the most relevant Update 5 enhancement to Syria, which includes AIM-9X Block I separate from Increment 3.1 (3.2B adds AIM-9X Block II), is Mode 5th to 4th generation IFDL capability (IFDL GWY Mode). Without a BACN aircraft in the vicinity, Raptor pilots previously had to resort to using VHF/UHF radio to communicate with older aircraft:

"The fourth and fifth gen pilots have figured out 'how to integrate tactics…without that shared data link' through the use of 'contracts' regarding who will do what and when. The pilots are then 'able to pass very specific things over traditional UHF [and] VHF radios, to where not only can we execute the mission, but…at the same level, as if we were sharing information perfectly'”. - http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... 316f22.pdf

Same article also states F-22s have been able to operate within close proximity to Russian and Syrian forces without being detected:

"Russian and Syrian pilots are 'interested' in the F-22, and may have tried maneuvering close by to see how the jet operates, but 'because of our sophisticated avionics and…stealth and…supercruise and maneuverability,' there’s 'not a time where we allow Syrians or Russians to see us or influence us in any way without us choosing for them to do that,' Anhalt explained. He said there were 'some incidents…early on' in which F-22s had to steer coalition air packages away from the Syrian or Russian jets and 'we were very close to them and they never realized it'." [emphasis added]


Does the Update 5 IFDL 5th-to-4th capability assume a Freedom 550 radio on the 4Gen platform?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 666
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 04:41

Silly question...if Update 5 OFP F22s have IFDL GWY mode, does the most up to date F22s really need a Link 16 transmit capability? The only way the F22 needs a Link 16 transmit mode is if the IFDL GWY mode converts the IFDL waveform into the Link 16 waveform.
Offline

mk82

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 666
  • Joined: 15 Oct 2009, 18:43
  • Location: Australia

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 04:47

The Russians must be alarmed that F22s could operate near their forces undetected. Makes them realise how far behind the 5th generation curveball they are (PAK FA is still shuffling along..."block 1" PAK FAs wouldn't be all that the Russians want it to be). I wonder if the Russkies operated VHF radars in Syria? If they did...that makes VHF radar detects stealth all the time a pile of shite!
Offline
User avatar

mangler-muldoon

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: 28 Feb 2013, 22:43

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 05:13

Does the Update 5 IFDL 5th-to-4th capability assume a Freedom 550 radio on the 4Gen platform?

I was not previously aware of Northrop's Freedom 550 radio, but to the best of my knowledge, IFDL GWY does not. However, the only place I've ever been able to find even a passing reference to IFDL GWY mode (changed to "IFDL Gateway mode as of FY17 documents) are in USAF RDT&E Justification Books. I could certainly be wrong.

Latest RDT&E Justification Book FY 2017 budget submission (control F for relevant materials): http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media ... 08-052.pdf

Of the several proposed and concurrent planned solutions to bridge the F-22 with 4th generation platforms, IFDL GWY/Gateway mode is among the few that is actually being fielded right now. The 525th FS and 90th FS were the first to receive Update 5 in March of 2016 but, according to the same budget document, both Update 5 and Increment 3.2A Link-16 receive capability aught to be fully fielded within the Raptor fleet across Block 30 and Block 35 airframes. For good reason, the documents don't go into if IFDL Gateway mode jeopardizes or in anyway diminishes standard IFDL low probability of intercept & detection qualities. Similarly, Update 6 gets into cryptography enhancements to IFDL & Link-16 mandated by the NSA (again this is unclassified in the document) which there are sparse on details for good reason :D

Bunch of other nice tidbits of info in there, I'll probably write an article on the highlights later. FY 2017 added a bunch of new info.
Attachments
F-22 Sched.jpg
Offline

arian

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 767
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 09:25

Unread post06 Jul 2016, 06:07

mk82 wrote:The Russians must be alarmed that F22s could operate near their forces undetected. Makes them realise how far behind the 5th generation curveball they are


Considering that they are flying around Syria with a Garmin fishing boat GPS, a 5th generation capability isn't even on their radar.
Offline

charlielima223

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 713
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post11 Nov 2016, 08:59


Return to General F-22A Raptor forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bjorn, botsing, Google Adsense [Bot], krorvik and 12 guests