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Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 02:26
by charlielima223
My :2c: and then some...

I dont believe this particular scenario was meant to see which aircraft was better (though in the interwebs it will always go that way). There is enough phallic measuring "debates" on the interwebs about various military platforms and systems to give someone a life time of entertainment. I think the comments of the former

French pilot added more light and a very interesting perspective. I find it interesting how he was pointing out that the pilot of the F-22 made reversals putting the Rafale in a better position. It could be the pilot was still new but personally I doubt.
Just go with me for a bit. I am reminded about a book I read about the 4477th TES. They would first fly a series of manuevers allowing a blue air pilot to observe how a Mig-21 performs. Then they would fly another series of manuevers with the blue air pilot letting them experience first hand how their aircraft performs in certain envelopes compared to their aircraft. Finally there was a DACM sortie allowing the blue air pilot to fight against their jets. They wouldnt make it easy but they still would allow the blue air some victories so that they can apply what they observed and experienced.
The Mig-21 is doing this and that. Make your F-15/F-16/F-4 do this and that in order to get into a more suitable position for guns or sidewinder shot.

Or atleast that is how I interpreted it.

I think that is what this F-22 "vs" Rafale encounter was. How often does a Rafale pilot get a chance to fly with a Raptor or an aircraft with similar performance? I dont think it was a gloves off, no holds bar, may the better pilot win type of dogfight... there are other training flights and exercises that can do that.

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 06:59
by gta4
deathangel wrote:Your French has issues..

The text says: "US officials reluctantly acknowledged the rafale was hard to contain and that in the 6 simulated fights 5 ended neutral and one ended with the rafale striking a shot (on the F22)



You are a terrible liar.

You are twisting the words into another direction.

You think no one speaks French here so you can post whatever you want?

The original phrase:

"un coup au but pour le Raptor"

The raptor scored once, not the rafale.

And, at 12:42, in his own words: "one was won by the raptor"

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 16:05
by gta4
A closer look to this liar:

deathangel the liar.png


There are lots of french speakers in this forum and they can confirm my translation.

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 21:02
by deathangel
gta4 wrote:A closer look to this liar:

deathangel the liar.png


There are lots of french speakers in this forum and they can confirm my translation.


gta4 wrote:
deathangel wrote:Your French has issues..

The text says: "US officials reluctantly acknowledged the rafale was hard to contain and that in the 6 simulated fights 5 ended neutral and one ended with the rafale striking a shot (on the F22)



You are a terrible liar.

You are twisting the words into another direction.

You think no one speaks French here so you can post whatever you want?

The original phrase:

"un coup au but pour le Raptor"

The raptor scored once, not the rafale.

And, at 12:42, in his own words: "one was won by the raptor"



Big spank deserved on this one, effectively I read Ra.... interpreted Rafale when it was raptor.

So I Double checked for the rest (learning from mistakes is the way to go ) of your quotes and reheard cautiously what the pilot actually explained and pffiou what a relief looks like I understood well.

But prove me wrong and that you didn't lied by omission almost all way long.

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 22:14
by deathangel
XanderCrews wrote:
deathangel wrote:
Well if your mum is Kelly Anne Conway I understand that you are in alternative facts and such but such bad faith......life have must been hard on you..

By the way it's not a reproach, it's just an observation


If we are just going to say that whatever the pilots say is written in stone the F-22 will always win, we have far more comments about the F-22s overwhelming superiority than the Rafale. so one observation might be that for every Rafale remark we have about 100 F-22 comments. Meaning there's one set of facts, and another set of "alternate facts" and it doesn't bode well for the Rafale.


I'm ok with that and to go your way two things the pilot stated

-The pilot says this is an unlikely event (dogfight / guns only )
-Even if it happened, (let's say the F22 needed a visual ID) and it ended in a dogfight the F22 outnumbers the Rafales so the rafale would be wiped away by another F22 staying at a distance.

So in this particular and unlikely event the duo F22/pilot was bested by the Rafale/pilot duo not a big deal right ?

But then comes GTA4 in a finest Mafia Lawyer move deliberately omiting (or conveniently reversing: bareling defensively when the pilot says barreling to keep beeing offensive) whatever the pilot says when it goes against the F22 to prove his religion:
Rule 1: The F22 is always the best.
Rule 2: If not the case refer to rule 1

The F22 lost this particular and unlikely one, no need to storm the front Taliban style that was most my mood

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2020, 22:17
by deathangel
charlielima223 wrote:My :2c: and then some...

I dont believe this particular scenario was meant to see which aircraft was better (though in the interwebs it will always go that way). There is enough phallic measuring "debates" on the interwebs about various military platforms and systems to give someone a life time of entertainment. I think the comments of the former

French pilot added more light and a very interesting perspective. I find it interesting how he was pointing out that the pilot of the F-22 made reversals putting the Rafale in a better position. It could be the pilot was still new but personally I doubt.
Just go with me for a bit. I am reminded about a book I read about the 4477th TES. They would first fly a series of manuevers allowing a blue air pilot to observe how a Mig-21 performs. Then they would fly another series of manuevers with the blue air pilot letting them experience first hand how their aircraft performs in certain envelopes compared to their aircraft. Finally there was a DACM sortie allowing the blue air pilot to fight against their jets. They wouldnt make it easy but they still would allow the blue air some victories so that they can apply what they observed and experienced.
The Mig-21 is doing this and that. Make your F-15/F-16/F-4 do this and that in order to get into a more suitable position for guns or sidewinder shot.

Or atleast that is how I interpreted it.

I think that is what this F-22 "vs" Rafale encounter was. How often does a Rafale pilot get a chance to fly with a Raptor or an aircraft with similar performance? I dont think it was a gloves off, no holds bar, may the better pilot win type of dogfight... there are other training flights and exercises that can do that.



That's indeed a possibility the french pilot stated, more explicitely in the french version of his video

Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 01:06
by deltasierracharlie
"Mover" and "Gonky" talk about the F-22 vs Rafale HUD footage:


Re: F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Unread postPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 08:43
by charlielima223
The pissing contest continues!
The video was entertaining! Thanks for the upload deltasierracharlie