F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

[cavok]

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eloise
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PostMon Oct 09, 2017 2:41 pm

cavok wrote:
Source?
https://youtu.be/DfqJYyPevvw
Is there anything in English or an article from reputable aviation magazine? I can't understand anything in there, let alone detail about rockies and instructor pilots.
On another note, it appears to be a 2 seat F-16
cavok wrote:
About 1 exocet (and weapon "quality, which is always disputable)
I find AM39 Exocet inferior to JSM in almost all important areas.

Hmm i think your data about exocet to be quite old... Even if JSM is moremodern (btw, Exocet is soon to be replaced by new english/french missile, can't remember the name). But the point was "doese it have A2sea capability no?

At the time of 2008, 1/7 Provence, a former jaguar flying sqd was newly formed and average pilots time was 250h. Luke pilots were instructors afaik.

Finally (i'd like to stop that contest) let's remind that F16V was dropped on technical reasons from indian MMRCA?

[eloise]

Hmm i think your data about exocet to be quite old... Even if JSM is moremodern (btw, Exocet is soon to be replaced by new english/french missile, can't remember the name). But the point was "doese it have A2sea capability no?

There isn't any newer version of AM-39 and the point isn't whether Rafale has anti ship capability, the point is Rafale will not out perform all version of F-16 in all missions.

Luke pilots were instructors afaik

What is his name?

Finally (i'd like to stop that contest) let's remind that F16V was dropped on technical reasons from indian MMRCA?

Let remind that it has a lot to do with technology transfer and the fact that CFT will reduce F-16 agility when installed.

[basher54321]

Finally (i'd like to stop that contest) let's remind that F16V was dropped on technical reasons from indian MMRCA?

The F-16V didn't exist then and is different to the F-16IN that was offered at the time, although the F-16 Block 70 currently being offered to India might be more like the V.

The 309 FS is one of the F-16 training squadrons at Luke which is probably one reason they get the low powered jets - I'm not going to speculate on the F-16 A-A hours they had.........

FYI the F-16 Block 50/52 was the USAF primary SEAD platform since taking over from F-4Gs in the 1990s, utilises an upgraded AQS-213 HTS/STING pod - so we can safely say it was and is very capable in that mission.

To make you aware, the other advanced F-16 variant today is the F-2A that was possibly designed with a primary anti ship mission for one, with a second gen Japanese AESA radar and AESA tipped active missiles, again bit of an unknown but expect very capable.

[cavok]

There isn't any newer version of AM-39 and the point isn't whether Rafale has anti ship capability, the point is Rafale will not out perform all version of F-16 in all missions.

You know perfectly what i was answering to.

[rnvalencia]

And for your Entertainment, Picard..... enough said.

One question, what control surface is the Rafale using to control yaw rate above 35 degrees AoA?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... le-334383/

The DFCS is a "g" demand system with +9.0g/29° angle of attack (AoA) limit in air-to-air mode and +5.5g/20° AoA limit in both of the two air-to-ground/heavy stores modes (ST1 and ST2) to cater for forward or aft centre of gravity

[rnvalencia]

I think Rafale's wedge, re-energizes the airflow over the wings. Because, once airflow starts to break up near the back of the wing, the elevons effectiveness for pitching decreases.

The elevons are hinged to the wing, where as a stab leading edge (like on the F-18) can more freely bite into the wind. And I have yet to see any of the euro-canards match or exceed the Hornet in high AOA nose pointing.


I love Rafale, it's an absolutely beautiful machine. It is extremely agile and elegant. However, it is not the best at everything.



In the real world a Rafale will go into ACM with external stores (probably 4 AAM, and EFT pylons (unless they go with the tank), an F-22 has all of that internal. We must not forget that-

I haven't seen Rafale executing controlled high AOA cobra manoeuvre with near zero speed.

https://youtu.be/A5E-qOtu9Jk?t=32
F-18E Super Hornet's cobra manoeuvre with near zero speed.

[gta4]

Some comments from a F-22 pilot who have flown against Typhoon and Rafale:

" I spoke with 2 Langley Raptor pilots (one came from Block 30/40/50 Vipers, the other came from C model Eagles). The Raptor, according to them, has better ITR/STR than eurocanards. And it's a better dog-fighter/air to air platform than the F-35 (sorry it just is). One said that he fought Rafales in Europe, and unless the Raptor pilot was asleep, he should nearly always come out on top; it had better ITR/STR/AOA/nose authority. The other said that the only real concern that he would have if any, was to be "careful" at times with the EF's acceleration. He DID NOT SAY that the EF can out accelerate a Raptor, he was simply implying that its T/W ratio and acceleration is its greatest asset. "

by F-16adf

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5525&start=990

[gta4]

It seems Rafale is less of a threat than EF2000!

They have similar turn rate, but EF2000 accelerates faster, while Rafale is mediocre in all aspects

[wil59]

It seems Rafale is less of a threat than EF2000!

They have similar turn rate, but EF2000 accelerates faster, while Rafale is mediocre in all aspects

yes the results prove it 7/1 in BFM victory of the rafale on EF2000 but yes gta 4 for you the rafale is bad.

[viper12]

Source and context ?

[gta4]

It seems Rafale is less of a threat than EF2000!

They have similar turn rate, but EF2000 accelerates faster, while Rafale is mediocre in all aspects

yes the results prove it 7/1 in BFM victory of the rafale on EF2000 but yes gta 4 for you the rafale is bad.

Well 7/1 is claimed by French, while German air force claimed that EF200 beat Rafale's sh*t out above 20000 ft.

[nutshell]

"And it's a better dog-fighter/air to air platform than the F-35 (sorry it just is)'



It's for sure better at being disseminated around large portions of ground.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

That quote refers to Raptors.

[herciv]

Hmm i think your data about exocet to be quite old... Even if JSM is moremodern (btw, Exocet is soon to be replaced by new english/french missile, can't remember the name). But the point was "doese it have A2sea capability no?

There isn't any newer version of AM-39 and the point isn't whether Rafale has anti ship capability, the point is Rafale will not out perform all version of F-16 in all missions.

Luke pilots were instructors afaik

What is his name?

Finally (i'd like to stop that contest) let's remind that F16V was dropped on technical reasons from indian MMRCA?

Let remind that it has a lot to do with technology transfer and the fact that CFT will reduce F-16 agility when installed.

sketch-1507637203871.png

sketch-1507637242550.png

As an analysis there's this one : https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/07/14696.html
or here https://thediplomat.com/2017/08/indias- ... om-france/

[nutshell]

That quote refers to Raptors.

Ah yeah, misread it.

Just for now, then...