F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

rheonomic

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 622
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 03:44

Unread post30 Jun 2018, 23:19

Largely agree on all points.

UK has the technology, but I wonder if they could do an entire program on their own (largely political here, but there's probably some loss of capability given the way they've abused their aerospace industry). I'm confident in saying that the Germans, Italians, and Spanish could not.
"You could do that, but it would be wrong."
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2324
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post01 Jul 2018, 16:34

f4u7_corsair wrote:
lrrpf52 wrote:
kimjongnumbaun wrote:Economy of scale...


Rafales produced as of early 2018: 164 (first was in 1986)

Not sure where you get that date from. Rafale A is a demonstrator, not prototype.. X-35/EAP equivalent.
but it seems to have serpentine inlet ducts to prevent fan blade exposure from frontal aspect

Indeed, plus serrated edges on panels, I suspect some coating (not the the extent of the JSF of course), aligned leading edges, fixed ramp intakes. Its shape has been entirely redesigned after the Rafale A demonstrator to include computer-calculated fuselage curves and shapes, maximizing RCS reduction (there is not a single, exact shape commonalty between Raf A and B/C/M).

No other 4th gen. aircraft sports even half of these features!


Does not the Typhoon sport reduced RCS, Meteor, ASRAAM and performance levels in the same league? Don't get me wrong: I think the Rafale is a fine aircraft, likely with the best E/W fit (third only to the F-35/22). I'd say the Typhoon has the edge in kinematics though..
Offline

talkitron

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 390
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 10:55

Unread post01 Jul 2018, 21:56

rheonomic wrote:UK has the technology, but I wonder if they could do an entire program on their own (largely political here, but there's probably some loss of capability given the way they've abused their aerospace industry). I'm confident in saying that the Germans, Italians, and Spanish could not.


The UK is facing immense cuts in procurement based on the existing, 2015 or so plan if they do not ramp spending up to 2.5% of GDP. The previous plan was based on unrealistic assumptions about cost savings and economic growth. Some UK media claim the prime minister and defense minister are in a power struggle over whether to cut procurement or raise spending. Anyway, in this funding climate getting R&D funds to develop a brand new fighter without partners seems like a long shot.
Offline

f4u7_corsair

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 44
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2015, 17:28

Unread post01 Jul 2018, 23:34

mixelflick wrote:Does not the Typhoon sport reduced RCS, Meteor, ASRAAM and performance levels in the same league? Don't get me wrong: I think the Rafale is a fine aircraft, likely with the best E/W fit (third only to the F-35/22). I'd say the Typhoon has the edge in kinematics though..

I don't believe it has serrated panel edges, and some features like the variable intake aren't too beneficial for reduced RCS. Unlike Rafale, and as far as I know, its shape has not been designed with RCS reduction particularly in mind.

It indeed benefits from the Meteor, since it is fielded on both aircraft. From my understanding, ASRAAM is a bit shorter legged than the MICA, which even with its IIR head is designed to be employed as a true BVRAAM, and compares very well to the AMRAAM (until the latest Charlie 7 and most importantly Delta variants were designed - MICA NG is ongoing development to close the gap).

The Typhoon is indeed a dragster; it'll be found usually higher and faster than a Rafale, especially w/ its centerline tank loadout. It is the result of its interceptor design philosophy, and I have to admit astounds most Raf/M2000 pilots I've talked to.

When it comes to maneuvring though, Rafale fares significantly better, mostly thanks to its flight controls. It shows in displays, but most importantly in ACM..
Offline

marsavian

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 286
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 21:55

Unread post02 Jul 2018, 15:11

The Typhoon shape was tuned to lower stealth in tests at BAE Warton in the 1990s and they did claim on release it was second only to the F-22 in stealth so RCS reduction was part of the design albeit a secondary/tertiary priority. Whether this second to F-22 comparison also included Rafale and Super Hornet is debatable as they were all released at the same time so may not have been included in the comparison and how would they know anyway.

What about the Rafale flight controls makes it superior to the Typhoon in maneuvring ?
Offline
User avatar

rheonomic

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 622
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 03:44

Unread post03 Jul 2018, 01:09

marsavian wrote:they [...] claim on release it was second only to the F-22 in stealth

Lol.
"You could do that, but it would be wrong."
Previous

Return to General F-22A Raptor forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests