F-22 vs. Rafale dogfight

Anything goes, as long as it is about the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

klearhos

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2017, 11:21

Unread post08 Aug 2017, 11:04

Well, that F-22 pilot was lucky cuz he/she/other had the opportunity in this exercise to see his/her/other future in actual combat.
Offline

viper12

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 115
  • Joined: 28 Jun 2017, 14:58

Unread post13 Aug 2017, 02:18

Where's [s]Picard[/s], sorry, degrasse ? Starting to work on this aerodynamics degree ? :devil:
Offline

charlielima223

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 778
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post13 Aug 2017, 08:17

viper12 wrote:Where's [s]Picard[/s], sorry, degrasse ? Starting to work on this aerodynamics degree ? :devil:


I can explain his trend of thought very very easily...

1. If its not european and doesn't have canards... it sucks
2. if its a product of the United States... it sucks

i just summed up all of that person's male bovine excrement.
Offline

f-16adf

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 17:46

Unread post13 Aug 2017, 19:30

"I can explain his trend of thought very very easily...

1. If its not european and doesn't have canards... it sucks
2. if its a product of the United States... it sucks"



Very well said. That's exactly how the Euros think-
Offline

white_lightning35

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2016, 03:07

Unread post13 Aug 2017, 21:36

f-16adf wrote:"I can explain his trend of thought very very easily...

1. If its not european and doesn't have canards... it sucks
2. if its a product of the United States... it sucks"



Very well said. That's exactly how the Euros think-


I would hesitate to say that. Some European countries are buying the f-35, so it doesn't make sense to say they all think alike. I do notice that the f-35(and others) don't exactly have many fans among the cheese-eating surrender monkeys, though....
Offline

f-16adf

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 17:46

Unread post13 Aug 2017, 22:31

I probably should have included: "some" Euros think that way.


I think the French were always jealous of the F-4 Phantom's multi-role abilities; One wing of the Phantom could basically tote the entire load of the Mirage III. :D

And later by the time they perfected the Mirage F1, the F-16A stole their thunder. It basically took them 15-20 years to finally construct a jet that could beat most versions of it.
Offline

cavok

Banned

  • Posts: 146
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 19:52

Unread post04 Oct 2017, 17:07

f-16adf wrote:I probably should have included: "some" Euros think that way.


I think the French were always jealous of the F-4 Phantom's multi-role abilities; One wing of the Phantom could basically tote the entire load of the Mirage III. :D

And later by the time they perfected the Mirage F1, the F-16A stole their thunder. It basically took them 15-20 years to finally construct a jet that could beat most versions of it.


Becase you know several of them? And you know how any of them think?
Offline

white_lightning35

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2016, 03:07

Unread post04 Oct 2017, 19:35

cavok wrote:
f-16adf wrote:I probably should have included: "some" Euros think that way.


I think the French were always jealous of the F-4 Phantom's multi-role abilities; One wing of the Phantom could basically tote the entire load of the Mirage III. :D

And later by the time they perfected the Mirage F1, the F-16A stole their thunder. It basically took them 15-20 years to finally construct a jet that could beat most versions of it.


Becase you know several of them? And you know how any of them think?


I personally get my information from an insider at the top of the french intelligence forces,who is a Légion d'Honneur recipient. How about you?
Offline

white_lightning35

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2016, 03:07

Unread post04 Oct 2017, 19:37

Oh, here is a picture of him.

Image
Offline

f-16adf

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 17:46

Unread post04 Oct 2017, 19:58

Cavok, Yes, in fact I do.


I am the son of a Italian father and a Greek mother (that is actually a quarter French, from Marseille). My prior statement has nothing to do about one country v another country. I am well aware of certain European pride, just as I am familiar with the like for some Americans.


The F-4 Phantom was superior to the Mirage III in nearly every performance metric. The F-16 beat the Mirage F1 at Paris (and I am a big F1 fan). But reality is reality. Those 2 Jets were just better, plain and simple.

5100 Phantoms + 4600 Vipers=?, ....how many F1's and Mirage III's were ever sold?



Sure the Rafale beats nearly all Blocks of the F-16, but it took them a considerable amount of time to catch up-
And the Rafale is a beautiful jet. :D
Offline
User avatar

rheonomic

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 384
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 03:44
  • Location: US

Unread post05 Oct 2017, 01:43

f-16adf wrote:Sure the Rafale beats nearly all Blocks of the F-16, but it took them a considerable amount of time to catch up-
And the Rafale is a beautiful jet. :D


If only they could have made the fugly fixed probe retract...
u = (CB)⁻¹(cvdt_des - CAx)
Offline

cavok

Banned

  • Posts: 146
  • Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 19:52

Unread post07 Oct 2017, 12:00

f-16adf wrote:Cavok, Yes, in fact I do.


I am the son of a Italian father and a Greek mother (that is actually a quarter French, from Marseille). My prior statement has nothing to do about one country v another country. I am well aware of certain European pride, just as I am familiar with the like for some Americans.


The F-4 Phantom was superior to the Mirage III in nearly every performance metric. The F-16 beat the Mirage F1 at Paris (and I am a big F1 fan). But reality is reality. Those 2 Jets were just better, plain and simple.

5100 Phantoms + 4600 Vipers=?, ....how many F1's and Mirage III's were ever sold?



Sure the Rafale beats nearly all Blocks of the F-16, but it took them a considerable amount of time to catch up-
And the Rafale is a beautiful jet. :D

Mirage III/V ? around 1500 (i don't know exact numbers, can check if you wish) not that bad for a small plane coming from a small country, is it?
Mirage F1 around 750-800. Not as future proof as F-16 (flybywire) i agree. Better compare with Mirage 2000.

I'll use a common forum language here : (i hate it, but...) Rafale beats F-16 any block hands down in any mission.
Offline

eloise

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1386
  • Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 16:05

Unread post07 Oct 2017, 14:54

cavok wrote:I'll use a common forum language here : (i hate it, but...) Rafale beats F-16 any block hands down in any mission.

How about block 60? Or anti ship mission?
Offline

basher54321

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1249
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2014, 15:43

Unread post07 Oct 2017, 15:10

Block 60 is an unknown in terms of true capability so a useful comparison from the UAE is what is required perhaps.

The modern day F-16 as far as the USAF is concerned is the F-35A of which the Rafale is not comparable of course.

Most US F-16 upgrades have been cancelled over the years - even F-16V doesn't seem to be adding that much - although the APG-83 could certainly be a better radar.
Offline

f-16adf

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 303
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 17:46

Unread post07 Oct 2017, 15:37

Not trying to start an argument here. But.....

I read a few sources a couple years back that the Turkish GE Vipers didn't do all too bad in ACM vs the supposed superior EF and Rafale. I remember seeing HUD gun kills on a EF for sure. I think the article(s) were in Combat Aircraft???

Turkish Block 30/40 are from late 1980's early 1990's. They are OLD.....about 15 years or more older than the EF and Rafale.

Yeah, sure, it's pretty easy for the euro canards to beat up on the MLU models (which are from the early to mid 1980's, and have a weak engine). And according to Italian sources the EF and Pratt-220 F-16ADF were equals in ACM up to 10K. The EF and Rafale really only have a better ITR and marginal improvements in AOA authority. I'm willing to bet a light Block 15 with a -229IPE would have no problem in ACM against the euro canards. Rafale and EF have great ITR (like M2000) but I believe they are not superior when it comes to STR. And their AOA authority is FAR less than a legacy F-18C.


Additionally, if LM can keep the F-35's weight down; and PW could upgrade its engine to nearly 50K thrust. I bet it would be a handful in ACM against the euros...

I have already spoken to a Langley Raptor pilot, and he would not get into specifics, but he did say that it has a better ITR and STR than either of them. And we all know the F-22 has much greater Alpha.


When it comes down to it: the UK, France, and my country (US) are great allies- and will always be :D
PreviousNext

Return to General F-22A Raptor forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests