Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 08:24
by boff180
Hi guys,

On 14th January an F-22A from Elmendorf AB landed at Hickham AB as part of a routine deployment.

On landing the brakes on the port main gear overheated and caught fire causing the undercarriage to collapse. The aircraft came to rest on the port intake/weapons bay.

Details are sketchy as are photos. The serial is visible in one shot but the image is too small to make it out.

Andy

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 10:30
by fang

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 18 Jan 2015, 14:34
by aw2007

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 04:58
by arl8733
I can recall a problem early in the program where one MLG brake locked up at Dobbins but no fire. Believe the hydraulic system was the culprit on that one if I remember correctly.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 15:22
by aw2007
So any info as to which serial was involved ? Is the airframe likely a write-off or can it be saved ?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2015, 19:49
by neptune
aw2007 wrote:So any info as to which serial was involved ? Is the airframe likely a write-off or can it be saved ?


...they don't make these any more, it will be repaired.... :)

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2015, 00:08
by aw2007
neptune wrote:
aw2007 wrote:So any info as to which serial was involved ? Is the airframe likely a write-off or can it be saved ?


...they don't make these any more, it will be repaired.... :)


Really hope they can save this. We need every one of those 150 frontline jets. Anyone knows which serial was involved. Looks like the Raptor came for Sentry Aloha :

http://dod.hawaii.gov/blog/news-release ... next-week/

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2015, 03:24
by sferrin
Good thing we bought a lot of them and kept the line open for replacements and spares. :doh: :bang:

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Jan 2015, 17:11
by huggy
At $330,000,000 each, what's the big deal?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 25 Jan 2015, 03:02
by thomonkey
huggy wrote:At $330,000,000 each, what's the big deal?


planes cost alot when you only make a few of them.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 04 Feb 2015, 01:29
by mongo
I am seriously getting tired of people throwing in R&D costs into the total cost of the Raptor. :bang: Let's do that for all the other aircraft and see how much they add up to and factor in annuity of the dollar. I bet you they will exceed the Raptor, i.e. F-16 variants and F-15 upgrades.

Until then, the realistic cost is around $150million per a bird. Remember it. :roll:

Judging by the picture, that Raptor is repairable.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 04 Feb 2015, 15:05
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Raptor WAS $150 million. you do have to adjust for the inflation.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2015, 09:05
by geforcerfx
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Raptor WAS $150 million. you do have to adjust for the inflation.


165 million in 2014 dollars

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2015, 15:19
by vilters
R&D costs have to be included.
Who does R&D for free?
Everybody has to live, and be payed for.
No company works for free.

In the end?
Call it whatever you want or like; But it is on the bill.
And the dollars have to come from somewhere.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 08 Feb 2015, 19:20
by em745
vilters wrote:R&D costs have to be included.

:roll:

Let me as you this: If the production line were still open and the AF were to buy a new airframe tomorrow, how much would they pay, ~$165M or $330M+?

Case closed.

mongo wrote:I am seriously getting tired of people throwing in R&D costs into the total cost of the Raptor. :bang:

No kidding!

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 09 Feb 2015, 23:10
by sprstdlyscottsmn
<sarcasm> but if you don;t include the R&D then the B-2 only cost $450mil each instead of $1.2-2Bil

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 22 Feb 2015, 21:21
by huggy
em745 wrote:Case closed.


Really?

How about this:
The F-22 program produced 187 operational jets at a cost of $65B.

Happy now?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 23 Feb 2015, 02:32
by smsgtmac
The F-22 program produced 187 operational jets with performance and capabilities far beyond its predecessors that transform the way air warfare will be waged, while also advancing the state of the art in avionics, jet engine propulsion technology, and materials science, as well as advanced engineering, production, and testing processes all of which ramifications far beyond the scope of the program itself,aerospace, and national defense. And all of it comes at a bargain basement cost of merely $65B.

Now I'm fairly pleased. :wink:

On a more serious note, one of the great scams the Anti-Defense cabal has ever perpetrated was attaching the development costs directly to unit costs and getting the naive and innumerate to ignore/forget the inherent value of the knowledge and technology that comes as a direct benefit to society as a whole just by undertaking the program at all. I remember a classic example of this that was highlighted right after the B-2/ATB went public. It was also announced that a company who had been paid to develop imaging capabilities for NDI'ing composite structures had already applied the technology to medical devices that were fielded before the first B-2 was built. Of course, at the high end of the usefulness scale, fallout from all the projects under the 1960s space program have pretty much influenced/fostered/made affordable everything in our modern lives.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 23 Feb 2015, 15:09
by retchief70
F-22 procurement costs have what to do with a landing gear collapse at Hickam? Any new data on scope of damage or repair time?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 25 Feb 2015, 22:54
by aw2007
retchief70 wrote:F-22 procurement costs have what to do with a landing gear collapse at Hickam? Any new data on scope of damage or repair time?


My sentiment exactly. Is the concept "sticking to the topic" that difficult to comprehend ? Any word on which serial was involved and if the damages are repairable ?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 11 Jul 2015, 11:45
by aw2007
aw2007 wrote:
retchief70 wrote:F-22 procurement costs have what to do with a landing gear collapse at Hickam? Any new data on scope of damage or repair time?


My sentiment exactly. Is the concept "sticking to the topic" that difficult to comprehend ? Any word on which serial was involved and if the damages are repairable ?


It's been 6 months since the incident. Any news on the fate of the air frame ? Has the serial been identified ?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2015, 12:34
by aw2007
aw2007 wrote:
aw2007 wrote:
retchief70 wrote:F-22 procurement costs have what to do with a landing gear collapse at Hickam? Any new data on scope of damage or repair time?


My sentiment exactly. Is the concept "sticking to the topic" that difficult to comprehend ? Any word on which serial was involved and if the damages are repairable ?


It's been 6 months since the incident. Any news on the fate of the air frame ? Has the serial been identified ?


It‘s been 10 months since the accident. Any word as to which serial was involved and its fate?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2015, 16:12
by checksixx
vilters wrote:R&D costs have to be included.
Who does R&D for free?
Everybody has to live, and be payed for.
No company works for free.

In the end?
Call it whatever you want or like; But it is on the bill.
And the dollars have to come from somewhere.


I call it as you don't really know how it works. Only the media or program haters throw in R&D costs. R&D (prototype) stages of a program are funded SEPARATELY from the rest of the program. This is in reference to the prototyping, design changing, fly-off's, etc. Continued development funds are also funded SEPARATELY. Fly away aircraft price IS the per aircraft price. PERIOD. Now if you want to include everything and divide by number of production aircraft produced, go ahead, but your opinion does not represent a fact.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2015, 00:17
by retchief70
I'm glad you brought this back up, aw2007. I don't have any info on the damage other than what's been posted. Hopefully its already fixed, and the jet is back in service. I will say that if the damage is extensive it could take some time to repair. The Tyndall jet that landed gear up back in May 2012 is still grounded. I believe LM has a contract to repair, but that's still in the early stages. Any of you HANG folks know the current status of the aircraft in question?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2015, 11:39
by aw2007
retchief70 wrote:I'm glad you brought this back up, aw2007. I don't have any info on the damage other than what's been posted. Hopefully its already fixed, and the jet is back in service. I will say that if the damage is extensive it could take some time to repair. The Tyndall jet that landed gear up back in May 2012 is still grounded. I believe LM has a contract to repair, but that's still in the early stages. Any of you HANG folks know the current status of the aircraft in question?


Thanks for the info, Chief. Wow, that's a long time ! Can anyone confirm it was 07-4142 that was involved ?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:06
by aw2007
retchief70 wrote:I'm glad you brought this back up, aw2007. I don't have any info on the damage other than what's been posted. Hopefully its already fixed, and the jet is back in service. I will say that if the damage is extensive it could take some time to repair. The Tyndall jet that landed gear up back in May 2012 is still grounded. I believe LM has a contract to repair, but that's still in the early stages. Any of you HANG folks know the current status of the aircraft in question?


Since the incident occurred in Jan, I've narrowed down the possibilities to either 142 or 122, with an overwhelming hunch that it was 142 since the the image show the stabs don't have the Bulldog fin flashes on them-122 has been assigned to 525. Lo and behold, the Air Force published a story yesterday on Koean AF cadets visiting Hikham, showing AK 07-142 is alive and well
http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... adets.aspx

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... adets.aspx

http://media.dma.mil/2015/Nov/10/200131 ... 68-006.JPG

At this point, I'm 99.9999999% sure it was 142 that was involved and that it was repaired and made flight worthy again.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2015, 16:21
by aw2007
aw2007 wrote:
retchief70 wrote:I'm glad you brought this back up, aw2007. I don't have any info on the damage other than what's been posted. Hopefully its already fixed, and the jet is back in service. I will say that if the damage is extensive it could take some time to repair. The Tyndall jet that landed gear up back in May 2012 is still grounded. I believe LM has a contract to repair, but that's still in the early stages. Any of you HANG folks know the current status of the aircraft in question?


Since the incident occurred in Jan, I've narrowed down the possibilities to either 142 or 122, with an overwhelming hunch that it was 142 since the the image show the stabs don't have the Bulldog fin flashes on them-122 has been assigned to 525. Lo and behold, the Air Force published a story yesterday on Koean AF cadets visiting Hikham, showing AK 07-142 is alive and well
http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... adets.aspx

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... adets.aspx

http://media.dma.mil/2015/Nov/10/200131 ... 68-006.JPG

At this point, I'm 99.9999999% sure it was 142 that was involved and that it was repaired and made flight worthy again.




Here's another one

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/2289961/ ... ktFdF88Lv4

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2015, 16:35
by aw2007
retchief70 wrote:I'm glad you brought this back up, aw2007. I don't have any info on the damage other than what's been posted. Hopefully its already fixed, and the jet is back in service. I will say that if the damage is extensive it could take some time to repair. The Tyndall jet that landed gear up back in May 2012 is still grounded. I believe LM has a contract to repair, but that's still in the early stages. Any of you HANG folks know the current status of the aircraft in question?


Just a side note and an update: apparently, Lockmart was awarded a contract to repair the grounded jet. It is scheduled to complete in 4 years.
http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pa ... Fixed.aspx

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2015, 18:32
by retchief70
Thanks for the info on the Tyndall jet, aw2007. Still haven't heard anything on the HANG jet with the collapsed gear. Anybody?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2015, 19:09
by aw2007
retchief70 wrote:Thanks for the info on the Tyndall jet, aw2007. Still haven't heard anything on the HANG jet with the collapsed gear. Anybody?

Scroll up the page a little and see the previous 2 posts. From the pictures, do you think 07-4142 has been fully repaired and made air worthy ?

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2015, 19:43
by retchief70
Got ya. Thanks.

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2015, 19:47
by aw2007
aw2007 wrote:
retchief70 wrote:Thanks for the info on the Tyndall jet, aw2007. Still haven't heard anything on the HANG jet with the collapsed gear. Anybody?

Scroll up the page a little and see the previous 2 posts. From the pictures, do you think 07-4142 has been fully repaired and made air worthy ?


Actually, it wasn't an HANG that was involved. It was an 90th FS jet, presumably 07-4142 that had the accident when it went to Honolulu for Sentry Aloha

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 19:37
by aw2007
Update: 07-4142 appeared to have been repaired and presumably en route back to Elmendorf (?), according to these pictures dated 7/26/16

http://www.airfighters.com/photo/179580 ... r/07-4142/

https://flic.kr/p/KodFDG

Re: Incident at Hickham 14th Jan - Gear Collapse

Unread postPosted: 26 Nov 2017, 11:21
by aw2007
aw2007 wrote:Update: 07-4142 appeared to have been repaired and presumably en route back to Elmendorf (?), according to these pictures dated 7/26/16

http://www.airfighters.com/photo/179580 ... r/07-4142/

https://flic.kr/p/KodFDG


Final Update: 07-4142 appears to have been back in full force with the 90th FS as it participated in Northern edge, during May, 2017

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31292545@ ... PKr-KodFDG

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31292545@ ... PKr-KodFDG

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31292545@ ... PKr-KodFDG