F-22 Database and photo thread

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 31 Mar 2020, 12:31

"One of the things (the F-35 Lightning) usually takes hit on is the handling because it’s not an F-22. An F-22 is unique in its ability to maneuver and we’ll never be that."

While this may be true, how many aircraft can rate like a Viper and radius like a SH? And do it carrying 18,000lbs of fuel, plus 5,000lbs worth of weapons, with the invisibility switch?

Only the SU-57 or J-20, and the latter is questionable IMO. The SU-57 will be more maneuverable, with or without its 2nd stage engines but then again, its anyone's guess as to how many (or even if) they build production models. The first one crashed, and proceeding with full scale production before knowing what caused that crash is crazy.

Which means, the Russians will probably do so... :doh:

BDF · by **BDF** » 31 Mar 2020, 14:31

mixelflick wrote:"One of the things (the F-35 Lightning) usually takes hit on is the handling because it’s not an F-22. An F-22 is unique in its ability to maneuver and we’ll never be that."

While this may be true, how many aircraft can rate like a Viper and radius like a SH? And do it carrying 18,000lbs of fuel, plus 5,000lbs worth of weapons, with the invisibility switch?

Only the SU-57 or J-20, and the latter is questionable IMO. The SU-57 will be more maneuverable, with or without its 2nd stage engines but then again, its anyone's guess as to how many (or even if) they build production models. The first one crashed, and proceeding with full scale production before knowing what caused that crash is crazy.

Which means, the Russians will probably do so...

Reading between the lines there's more to this than the WVR maneuverability. Its overall kinematics. Acceleration, particularly transonic acceleration, speed, altitude and available G are all important for BVR tactics too. This is why the F-22 is top dog. One of my favorite recent quotes is from a Raptor driver who said if the Raptor had a IRST it would be "the most diabolical air-to-air killing machine imaginable."

We really need to get IRST, a HMD and preferably a way to DL directly to F-35s. Luckily looks like many of these are on the way:

https://www.ang.af.mil/Portals/77/docum ... 122634-043

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 01 Apr 2020, 01:26

mixelflick wrote:

While this may be true, how many aircraft can rate like a Viper and radius like a SH? And do it carrying 18,000lbs of fuel, plus 5,000lbs worth of weapons, with the invisibility switch?

Only the SU-57 or J-20, and the latter is questionable IMO. The SU-57 will be more maneuverable, with or without its 2nd stage engines but then again, its anyone's guess as to how many (or even if) they build production models. The first one crashed, and proceeding with full scale production before knowing what caused that crash is crazy.

Which means, the Russians will probably do so...

We don't know what the STR/ITR, etc.... for the Su-57/J-20 happen to be, or whether they're superior. The Su-57 isn't even necessarily superior to the Su-35, in those metrics.

disconnectedradical · by **disconnectedradical** » 01 Apr 2020, 01:43

wrightwing wrote:
mixelflick wrote:

While this may be true, how many aircraft can rate like a Viper and radius like a SH? And do it carrying 18,000lbs of fuel, plus 5,000lbs worth of weapons, with the invisibility switch?

Only the SU-57 or J-20, and the latter is questionable IMO. The SU-57 will be more maneuverable, with or without its 2nd stage engines but then again, its anyone's guess as to how many (or even if) they build production models. The first one crashed, and proceeding with full scale production before knowing what caused that crash is crazy.

Which means, the Russians will probably do so...

We don't know what the STR/ITR, etc.... for the Su-57/J-20 happen to be, or whether they're superior. The Su-57 isn't even necessarily superior to the Su-35, in those metrics.

According to Su-57 test pilot, subsonic maneuverability is about same as Su-35 but supersonic maneuverability is much better. Also from Chinese test pilot J-20 subsonic maneuverability is "decent" but supersonic maneuverability is much better. Both will need new engines to be comparable to F-22, but F-22 is already 15 years in service, so they're playing catch up right now.

Su-57 looks cooler and probably better performance but J-20 is probably the bigger threat. China actually has money and they make decent electronics now. Pilots I talked to think J-20 is more threatening.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 01 Apr 2020, 03:20

Al41F1 not that far from F119 lb class. WS-10C is further off.

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 04 Apr 2020, 01:25

weasel1962 wrote:Al41F1 not that far from F119 lb class. WS-10C is further off.

I think what really separates the F119 from those two aforementioned engines isnt just the power out put but also its efficiency.

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 04 Apr 2020, 01:31

I found this. This isnt low viz like here
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56821

I dont know if it was photo shopped on there but its pretty awesome

BDF · by **BDF** » 04 Apr 2020, 13:58

charlielima223 wrote:I found this. This isnt low viz like here
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56821

I dont know if it was photo shopped on there but its pretty awesome

Almost positive that's photoshopped. And its also against current regs now too.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 04 Apr 2020, 23:28

BDF wrote:
charlielima223 wrote:I found this. This isnt low viz like here
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56821

I dont know if it was photo shopped on there but its pretty awesome

Almost positive that's photoshopped. And its also against current regs now too.

It's not very inclusive. :shock:

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 08 Apr 2020, 01:50

This is an oldie but a goldie

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 08 Apr 2020, 12:37

Those Lockheed fighters both have an insane ITR!

The Raptor STR is also legendary, and hey the F-35 STR isn't talked about much BUT it's said to be as good as a clean F-16. Not too shabby!

Scorpion1alpha · by **Scorpion1alpha** » 13 Apr 2020, 12:06

Serious Gs:

The fastest moving cloud in the world?

Scorpion1alpha · by **Scorpion1alpha** » 13 Apr 2020, 12:10

Hawaiian Raptor teaching his little brother how to hunt and kill 18th Aggressors during Exercise Pacific Raptor Jan-Feb 2020:

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 14 Apr 2020, 20:53

Scorpion1alpha wrote:Hawaiian Raptor teaching his little brother how to hunt and kill 18th Aggressors during Exercise Pacific Raptor Jan-Feb 2020:

Just a little bit of musing...

No doubt in the foreseeable future the F-35 will pick up the slack for air-to-air missions left behind by the small numbers of F-22s. Once they develop a means for the F-22 to securely talk with the F-35; with the F-35's higher SA combined to the F-22 they would make one helluva "hunter killer" team in the sky.

Scorpion1alpha · by **Scorpion1alpha** » 27 Apr 2020, 12:08

Eight U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptors, a KC-135 Stratotanker and a C-17 Globemaster III taxi on the runway during a routine training schedule April 21, 2020, at Honolulu International Airport, Hawaii. Given the low traffic at the airport due to COVID-19 mitigation efforts, the active-duty 15th Wing and the Hawaii Air National Guard’s 154th Wing seized an opportunity to document the operation which showcases readiness and their unique Total Force Integration construct. The units of Team Hickam work together seamlessly to deliver combat airpower, tanker fuel, and humanitarian support and disaster relief across the Indo-Pacific.

Hmmm...