Polish F-16s arrived!

HazF16 · by **HazF16** » 13 Nov 2006, 19:30

Sundowner wrote:it's one of AN/ALQ-178 Raport III EW system antenna, here's a photo of it on F-16 block52 from Greece.

The system was design to counter the new Russian S-300 system.

I see...

skrip00 · by **skrip00** » 13 Nov 2006, 22:45

BEAUTIFUL!!!

This'll give Polska a major boost in capacity for many years to come... heck, maybe the F-35 is in their future as well?

Sundowner · by **Sundowner** » 13 Nov 2006, 23:53

I really hope so, but right now, we need to train more people, and foremost buy more Vipers, 48 is not enough - it's a tear in a sea of our needs. Especially when in 2012 those Vipers will be fully combat ready (first squadron in 2008) all of our Su22s and Fulcrums will be at scrap yard, and that will make us 83 planes short.

And there is a slight problem with armament... we will get more than 800 AGM-65 Mavericks... but not a single HARM, or any anti-ship missile.

We also lack tankers, but there is a plan for two used ex-LOT airlines Boeing 767s to be bought by PSP and converted to that role.

skrip00 · by **skrip00** » 14 Nov 2006, 01:36

It takes time to bring up an entire air force to US Specs. And even more money.

I know Poland's financial situation is improving, but... how much do they have to work with in terms of recruiting new pilots/personnel, and upgrading equipment?

Sundowner · by **Sundowner** » 14 Nov 2006, 02:33

The Airbases are modernized as we speak - two of them - Lask and Krzesiny should meet all NATO standards right now, others need time.

About equipment - we need few tankers, some medium-heavy transports (C-17 class would be perfect, but those are still to pricy, so we’ll stay with renting civilian An-124 Ruslans). Some C-130s are about to be delivered. For troop transport we still have An-26 and new CASA C-295.

There is also need for training aircrafts - the basic role is fulfilled by our PZL-130 "Orlik" TC-I aircrafts, some new TC-II and TC-III have to be build. There is almost no LIFT/ advanced training jet aircraft - the TS-11 "Iskra" is way to old , and the I-22 "Iryda" project ended up in the drain, so we need to buy new aircrafts, like Hawks, M-346, L-139, there was also a offer of T-38C+. But before we choose any, the decision must be made - will we still train our pilots on our own, or will we send them aboard for advanced training (like we did with the first Viper drivers).

Then comes Fighter/Attack jets, since we bought new Vipers, there is no reason to buy other type of aircraft right now, we just need more of them to replace 48 Su22s and 45 MiG29s.

But the personnel is the biggest problem of them all, we still doesn't have enough people for those 48 F-16s, it appears like the pay is still to low for those maintenance guys. For example a young sergeant - if he gets apartment from military, he have to pay the rent for it from his pay, if he have family... he need than to find a second job just to afford a good living, the military gives nothing these days.

The pilots are also a problem, but a bit different. I know one very good MiG29 pilot, he used to be also an Su22 jock, and there aren’t much of those kind of guys, he's also an acrobatic display pilot, he was on aboard mission in Lithuania. A perfect candidate, but as much he would like to fly the “Electric Jet”, he won't, because the health needs for F-16 program are so high in here, that all of those guys that are in the States right now, learning to fly the Viper, could easily attend to your NASA astronaut program. And everyone who was flying Fulcrums, pushing the limits - have something with his health (mostly some minor spine damage), they could pass USAF health exams, but not ours. If they would go for medical commission, and took all the tests, they would end up grounded for life.

I will not write about our needs in rotor crafts, and surface to air defense - that's a totally different story.

Hope I didn't bored anyone to death with this post

skrip00 · by **skrip00** » 14 Nov 2006, 03:25

No, its fine. Being from a Polish family, its interesting to know Polska's defense needs and solutions.

CaptainJackSparrow · by **CaptainJackSparrow** » 14 Nov 2006, 09:36

Isn't the plan to replace the Su-22's and Mig-29's once they retire with F-35's?

This would give a pretty nice F-35/F-16 Block 52+ 'tip of the sword' so to speak.

Henrik · by **Henrik** » 14 Nov 2006, 13:09

HazF16 wrote:
Sundowner wrote:it's one of AN/ALQ-178 Rapport III EW system antenna, here's a photo of it on F-16 block52 from Greece.

The system was design to counter the new Russian S-300 system.

Sundowner and others,

The Greek F-16s are not equipped with the AN/ALQ-178 Rapport III system -that is the Turkish F-16C/D Block-30/40 aircraft that has this system!!

The Greek Vipers - all F-16C Block-30/50s and both F-16C and F-16D Block-52+s - have the AN/ALQ-187 ASPIS system and this system does not have an antenna under the inlet.

F-16C Block-30
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0675587/L/

F-16C Block-50
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1098843/L/

F-16C Block-52+
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1119301/L/

F-16D Block-52+
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1077828/L/

Greetings,

Henrik.

Sundowner · by **Sundowner** » 14 Nov 2006, 15:43

Actually Houston, IIRC those are Polish Vipers, but those photos were taken in Texas before the ferry flight. I'll try to find the source later, now I'm a bit busy

Henrik, yes you're right, that shot was Turkish Viper, sorry for that.

Henrik · by **Henrik** » 14 Nov 2006, 16:27

No problem, Sundowner - thanks for the photos!!

Greetings,

Henrik.

Stefaan · by **Stefaan** » 14 Nov 2006, 19:03

Three photographs were removed since they were not officialy released.

Stefaan

J.J. · by **J.J.** » 14 Nov 2006, 20:50

Poland kicks off historic F-16 roll-out ceremony

by Maj. Krista Carlos, U.S. Air Forces in Europe Public Affairs

11/9/2006 - POZNAN, Poland (USAFENS) -- The first F-16s acquired by the Polish Air Force arrived at the 31st Air Base today kicking off a historic roll-out ceremony.

Gen. Tom Hobbins, Allied Air Component Commander and U.S. Air Forces in Europe Commander, represented the Air Force Chief of Staff at the hallmark event which included speeches by the Polish President, as well as a blessing of the aircraft and consecration ceremony.

"Poland's acquisition of the F-16 cements the relationship between the U.S. Air Force and the Polish Air Force for several decades to come," said General Hobbins. "This ceremony demonstrates that Poland has become a very powerful and more vital member of NATO than ever before."

The aircraft arrival marked a great leap forward for Poland as they transform from aging Soviet-style equipment to some of the most advanced systems in Europe and NATO.

"Poland's F-16s represent the most sophisticated aircraft in Eastern Europe and will serve as a military-to-military engagement magnet for forces in Europe," said General Hobbins. "These aircraft are extremely capable in any of the NATO roles, whether they're utilized in counter-air missions in the NATO Response Force, or air defense with the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan."

In addition to the sophistication aspect of the aircraft, the F-16 acquisition improves interoperability between NATO nations.

"From an interoperability standpoint, air policing will be one of the things that will be greatly enhanced as Poland brings down the MIG-29s and begins to develop operational F-16s to do that role," said the general.

To prepare the Polish Air Force for the arrival of their new aircraft, Polish pilots and maintainers trained with their American counterparts in the U.S. to learn about the F-16's capabilities.

"There is a flow of Polish pilots going through training in the U.S. right now and coming back to Poland," said Lt. Col. Eric Salomonson, 162nd Fighter Wing instructor pilot, Arizona Air National Guard. "We currently have 11 pilots training in Arizona now."

Additionally, Lt. Col. Salomonson explained the U.S. Air Force is currently helping and assisting the Polish with standing up their squadron in Poland, as well as rotating mobile training teams through to assist with aircraft maintenance.

As the Polish Air Force acquires a total of 48 F-16s over the next two years, the U.S. will continue to provide exchanges with their Polish counterparts to improve their F-16 partnerships and capabilities, continuing what our air force started decades earlier.

Story link:
http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp? ... =123031592

Associated picture:

Original photo caption: POZNAN, Poland (USAFENS) -- Poland welcomes the first of 48 F-16s Nov. 9 during an arrival ceremony at the 31st Air Base. Gen. Tom Hobbins, representing the U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff, attended the historic ceremony that marks Poland's transformation from Soviet-style equipment to some of the most modern systems in Europe and NATO. (USAF photo by Brig. Gen. Duane Jones, Director, USAFE/A4)

Hi-res version:
http://www.usafe.af.mil/shared/media/ph ... 6C-001.jpg

FALCON16 · by **FALCON16** » 14 Nov 2006, 22:27

Hello,

Here they are, more pics from the arrival ceremony in Poznan-Crezsiny:
http://viper16.fotopic.net/c1137328.html

Greetings,

DIRK

Lajes · by **Lajes** » 15 Nov 2006, 16:18

Hi all,

I was there as well, nice planes.

But, the Polish a/c do not have the systems you mentioned.

They have ITT Industries AN/ALQ-211 derived AN/ALQ-173(V) {also called ALQ-211 (V) 4} Advanced Integrated Defense Electronics Warfare System (AIDEWS). The antenna you mentioned is part of that system, likely the forward quarter jamming antenna.

Cheers, Lajes

Ps: Emitters associated with double digit threats call for a DRFM-based treatment, which these systems are sure capable of.

Patriot · by **Patriot** » 14 Dec 2006, 17:11

Today a dozen or so minutes past 2p.m. (GMT+1) next four polish Hawks (like polish F-16s officially were named) arrived to the 31st Air Base Poznań-Krzesiny.

Up to today arrived following aircrafts:
F-16C 4042, 4043, 4044, 4045, 4046
F-16D 4077, 4078, 4079