F-16V for Taiwan?

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charlielima223

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Unread post25 Aug 2019, 01:34

As China continually increases their military capability, steal technology/designs, violate/break agreements and oppress people (*points to Hong Kong*). It would be wise for the current administration to play hard with China not just in terms of trade policy (personally not a fan of trade war through tariffs unless there is a good reason and a foreseeable positive outcome) but also militarilly. We need assistance from regional allies to help check against Chinese military expansion and flexing.

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/08/hil ... -to-train/

The State Department sent Congress informal notification today that it intends to sell 66 F-16V fighters to Taiwan for $8 billion, marking another major dealwith the independent island just weeks after agreeing to sell 108 M1A2T Abrams tanks and missiles worth $2 billion.

The proposed deal, which is not expected to face serious opposition in Congress, would be one of the largest and most significant between the US and Taiwan in recent memory. The dozens of 4th generation F-16V fighters would represent a major upgrade from Taiwan’s existing fleet of about 140 F-16A/B planes, which join a mix of 90s-era French Mirage 2000 and locally made F-CK-1 Ching-kuo fighters.
***
Taiwan has long coveted the upgrade, but a previous request for 66 new F-16s was rejected by the Obama administration. With China continuing its rapid military modernization efforts however, the Trump administration and Taipei continued the F-16 talks for months even as some thought the administration would hesitate to move forward while it was involved in sensitive trade negotiations with Beijing. But President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were eager to move the package up to the Hill. 
***
One outstanding issue with the fighter plane deal, however, is where the new F-16V pilots will be trained. Taiwan and the Pentagon are looking to hammer out a new agreement on where F-16 pilots will train in the US now that Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, where they previously trained, will be used only to work up F-35 pilots.

Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense wants the training to be moved to the west coast, and wants its pilots to train alongside US Navy F-18 pilots in order to provide more realistic training for how they would operate alongside US Carrier Strike Groups in the Pacific.
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charlielima223

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Unread post29 Aug 2019, 01:35

Update.
Taiwan will get the F-16V. Its been approved but hasnt been completely finalized...
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... an-460337/
The deal was confirmed by a joint statement from House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel, a Democrat, and ranking member Michael McCaul, a Republican.
***
The deal has not been publicly been disclosed, but reportedly the US Congress was been notified of the sale after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo approved it. The joint statement by the top ranking Democrat and Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee is indicative of widespread, bipartisan support for the arms transfer.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post03 Sep 2019, 06:34

Taiwan getting a bargain on F-16V jets: lawmakers

Taiwan is expected to spend NT$250 billion (US$7.96 billion) to buy 66 F-16V jets, which will put the cost of a single aircraft at a relatively cheap price of about US$121.7 million, Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Legislator Wang Ting-yu (王定宇) said, using a conversion rate of NT$30.94 to US$1.

The US Department of State on Aug. 20 approved the sale, but the deal has to clear the US Congress before the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency officially makes it public.

The process will be completed once the US and Taiwan sign a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA).

A military source yesterday said that the Ministry of National Defense has finished drafting a budget for the sale, which will be sent to the Executive Yuan and then the Legislative Yuan for review.

If everything goes smoothly, Taiwan is expected to sign the LOA before the end of this year, send it back to Washington to finalize the deal, and take delivery of all 66 jets by 2026, the source said.

The air force has sent representatives to lobby lawmakers to approve the deal in the legislative session that begins this month, the source added, while the DPP and the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) have said they would most likely approve the budget.

Citing data provided by the air force, Wang said the price that Taiwan is proposing to pay is less than the average price paid by Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco and Bulgaria, about US$149 million per F-16V.

DPP Legislator Tsai Shih-ying (蔡適應) said the sale is a bargain because it is the cheapest F-16Vs the US has sold since 2009.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003721559
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invictus

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Unread post03 Sep 2019, 15:10

Many sleepless nights for chinese on the way.
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vilters

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Unread post03 Sep 2019, 21:27

Why?
Wars are won or lost on the ground, and China has many more boots then Taiwan.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post04 Sep 2019, 05:44

vilters wrote:Why?
Wars are won or lost on the ground, and China has many more boots then Taiwan.



Odds on China successfully retaking Taiwan are extremely poor. (for whole list of reasons)
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Sep 2019, 16:29

Taiwanese infographics of their buys.

https://air.mnd.gov.tw/TW/News/News_Det ... 6&ID=13289
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southernphantom

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Unread post13 Sep 2019, 19:53

vilters wrote:Why?
Wars are won or lost on the ground, and China has many more boots then Taiwan.


That's immaterial if the PLA never makes landfall in significant quantities.
I'm a mining engineer. How the hell did I wind up here?
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vilters

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Unread post14 Sep 2019, 13:06

southernphantom wrote:
vilters wrote:Why?
Wars are won or lost on the ground, and China has many more boots then Taiwan.


That's immaterial if the PLA never makes landfall in significant quantities.


History has the nasty habbit of repeating itself. Remember "D" Day?

Losses are expected and calculated for.
Wars are never "clean".
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weasel1962

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Unread post16 Sep 2019, 07:45

Specifically, what's changed from a couple of years ago is China's PLAMC building up 6 brigades as a landing force. This would be carried by the 8 Type 71 LPDs and at least 2 LHDs, the first of which has been painted and looks to launch before year end, the 2nd is half complete. They will also have at least 2 CVBGs to escort the landing force.

The PLAAF airborne corp has also reorganized into the brigade modular system with 6 brigades, of which at least 2 will be air assault capable. Add to that a few brigades of highly trained specops that can land in a variety of ways.

With a coastline of 1000-1566km, ROC's 30+ conscript brigades could be each defending a sector up to 40km wide. The landing force will be concentrated against a specific sector i.e. several brigades against 1 sector. If a beachhead can be established, China could land troops via LST or simply float a number of mobile docks that can dock and offload STUFT-ed ferries/merchies, with the capacity to send 10 brigades at a time, they don't need to capture a port. In the old days, they could predict where landing beaches could be. Today, LCACs like the 4 Zubrs China possess could navigate mudflats to land troops anywhere along the coastline or helos doing heli-insertions elsewhere. That would be supported by MLRS brigades that don't need to land as they can shoot from the other side of the straits.

In the eastern sector facing Taiwan, at least 13 of 18 combined arms brigades (CAB) in 71-73 GA are amphibious/air assault capable. Some like 179 CAB is a specially trained landing PLA brigade. Some like 3 CAB are air assault trained. Some like 124 CAB were created from Amphibious mech infantry divisions. These can be reinforced from group armies in the southern and central theatre. That's what's facing ROC today.
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weasel1962

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Unread post20 Sep 2019, 09:30

Just checked my notes. South and Central theaters both created a dedicated air assault brigade each (121 and 161) under the control of 75 and 83 group army respectively. An air assault brigade combines an infantry brigade (121 Infantry brigade and elements of the 149 Mech Infantry division) with a helicopter regiment (12 LH and 1 LH) as organic support. Within 100 days of commissioning, 161 Brigade was noted to exercise with a PLAN Marine brigade on air assault drills.

Air defence fighters like the F-16 are the primary defense against an air assault.
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Unread post15 Aug 2020, 15:37


U.S. Formalizes F-16 Jet Sale to Taiwan With China Tensions High
14 August 2020, 22:01 BST

Taiwan formally signed an agreement to buy 66 of the latest model F-16 jets built by Lockheed Martin Corp., a move likely to further inflame tensions between the U.S. and China.

Taiwan’s purchase of the F-16s marks the first sale of advanced fighter jets to the island since President George H.W. Bush announced approval for 150 F-16s in 1992. A $62 billion figure announced by the Pentagon on Friday is the upper limit of numerous contracts if all potential foreign customers placed their maximum desired number over the decade.

The move is likely to be denounced by Beijing, even though the U.S. first signaled its plans to approve the sale a year ago in an informal notification to Congress and it could still be years before the jets are delivered.

The announcement said that work on the 90 jets potentially to be sold under Friday’s announcement would be complete by late 2026.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... r-business







In perhaps the single biggest order for F-16 jets, Lockheed Martin has been awarded a $62 billion ten-year, fixed price contract from the US Air Force for production of F-16 aircraft for multiple Foreign Military Sale (FMS) customers.

The initial delivery order is for 90 aircraft, including both the pre-priced recurring core configuration costs at $2,862,797,674 and the engineering change proposal/undefinitized contract action for the non-recurring costs not-to-exceed $2,078,307,572 obligated at approximately $1,018,370,710.

The total value for the initial delivery order is $4,941,105,246 and will be awarded on the same date.

Work will be primarily performed in Greenville, South Carolina; and Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed Dec. 31, 2026. This contract involves 100% FMS to FMS partner nations and is the result of a sole-source acquisition. FMS funds in the amount of $3,881,168,384 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center is the contracting activity, according to a US DoD release.

The official Pentagon announcement did not name the FMS countries but the contract probably includes 66 jets for Taiwan which inked a $8 billion deal with the US government in 2019.

In addition, the US concluded deals with Bulgaria for 8 weaponised F-16s for 1.16 billion. Other customers for which F-16 deals have been concluded include 14 jets for Slovaika. All this adds up to 89 jets.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27648 ... _Customers

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Bjorn

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Unread post15 Aug 2020, 17:25

basher54321 wrote:


In addition, the US concluded deals with Bulgaria for 8 weaponised F-16s for 1.16 billion. Other customers for which F-16 deals have been concluded include 14 jets for Slovaika. All this adds up to 89 jets.



I thought at this time a total of 129 F-16s were already in the order books being:

- Bahrain: 16 (being built at Greenville as we speak as the first new-built block 70)
- Morocco: 25
- Slowakia: 14
- Bulgaria: 8
- Taiwan: 66

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basher54321

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Unread post15 Aug 2020, 18:03

Yes your figures look right for new builds - I didn't correct the text including their spelling of Slovakia.

First time I have seen that Taiwan may be after 90 new jets.
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jessmo112

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Unread post17 Aug 2020, 21:05

China threantens with new air base killing weapon.
Quake in fear!

https://www.flightglobal.com/beijing-hy ... 88.article
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