F-16V for Taiwan?

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jessmo112

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Unread post21 Aug 2020, 23:22

Think of it this way.
In the 1st 24 hours of the conflict.
4 Ohios launch 616 Tlams saturating the assembly areas
10× B-2 drop 800 Jdams
24x F-22s escorts each carry 8 sdb
Thats 192
And since this is the F-16 portion of the Forum
Lets throw in 48 tanker supported F-16s firing
Jassm-er.
Thats 1704 aim points in target area either sunk or burning. The majority of that fire power arrived without esrly warning. And the Ohios stick around to harass shipping.
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talkitron

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Unread post22 Aug 2020, 00:51

It is highly unlikely 100% of US SSGNs would be available to participate in the initial stages of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, or any other conflict. Also, I think the US total inventory of Tomahawks is estimated to be 2000. How many would be on these SSGNs versus other platforms around the world?

If you want to sign up for a Foreign Policy subscription at least for one month, there are two interesting articles on how Taiwan's military is a hollow shell. Most weapon systems are inoperable and combat units are not fully manned. The conscription and reserve policies are completely worthless.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/20/ta ... s-no-ammo/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/15/ch ... low-shell/
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jessmo112

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Unread post22 Aug 2020, 03:54

If each SSGn has 150 tlams, and we have 4 ssges thats over 600 right there. I could be mistaken, But its hard for me to believe that 30% of the entire tactical tomahawk inventory is on 4 ships. In a time of heightened tensions
They are likely already there.
Remember TLAMs can reach over 900 miles
So thats a pretty large area for a sub to cover.
For instance from Okinawa to Taiwan is 465 miles
From Okinawa to Shanghai is 511 miles
TLAM range is 1500 or so miles.


https://www.britannica.com/technology/T ... se-missile

Ohios could be nearly anywhere in the scs and hit targets in China
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weasel1962

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Unread post22 Aug 2020, 05:33

Tomahawks can be nuke armed. I just hope the Chinese know that these would be conventional. Otherwise jessmo just started a nuke war...Thanks from the rest of us.
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jessmo112

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Unread post22 Aug 2020, 17:58

So can srbms. There will be alot of missiles flying around.
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weasel1962

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Unread post23 Aug 2020, 01:33

jessmo112 wrote:So can srbms. There will be alot of missiles flying around.


Yup, but how many of those srbms will be targeted at US....
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jessmo112

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Unread post23 Aug 2020, 02:06

Japan and the U.S. forces stationed there are under a nuclear umbrella.
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weasel1962

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Unread post23 Aug 2020, 03:14

jessmo112 wrote:Japan and the U.S. forces stationed there are under a nuclear umbrella.


ZERO Japanese or US forces stationed on Taiwan, whether carrying umbrellas or no. Chinese SRBMs can't reach Japan btw.

Just wanted to highlight how irrelevant this has become cos once one starts shooting Toms at the chinese mainland, it could be ICBMs in the other directions. Umbrellas would be the least of any concerns.

I'd like to see how many tanker missions it'd take to get the F-22s state-side to Chinese airspace. Reminds me of the Vulcan sortie (11 tankers to a plane & 1 reserve)

Tired of this, decided not to respond to this anymore,
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jessmo112

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Unread post23 Aug 2020, 14:32

weasel1962 wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:Japan and the U.S. forces stationed there are under a nuclear umbrella.


ZERO Japanese or US forces stationed on Taiwan, whether carrying umbrellas or no. Chinese SRBMs can't reach Japan btw.

Just wanted to highlight how irrelevant this has become cos once one starts shooting Toms at the chinese mainland, it could be ICBMs in the other directions. Umbrellas would be the least of any concerns.

I'd like to see how many tanker missions it'd take to get the F-22s state-side to Chinese airspace. Reminds me of the Vulcan sortie (11 tankers to a plane & 1 reserve)

Tired of this, decided not to respond to this anymore,


1. A SRBM is defined as a ballistiic with a range of less than 620 miles.

2. Shanghai is less that 511 miles from Okinawa. The Chinese coast is even closer.

3. Dont get in your feelings because I called you on something, we are men here.

4 The F-22s wont come from Conus, but Alaska.
Or even Hawaii.
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talkitron

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Unread post24 Aug 2020, 02:23

jessmo112 wrote:4 The F-22s wont come from Conus, but Alaska.
Or even Hawaii.


Short range fighters cannot meaningfully affect a battle between China and Taiwan if the fighters operate from Alaska or Hawaii. Look at a map!

Several people brought up nuclear armed Tomahawks. That information is out of date. As Wikipedia states, "As of 2019, only non-nuclear, sea-launched variants assembled by Raytheon are currently in service."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
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jessmo112

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Unread post24 Aug 2020, 06:56

talkitron wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:4 The F-22s wont come from Conus, but Alaska.
Or even Hawaii.


Short range fighters cannot meaningfully affect a battle between China and Taiwan if the fighters operate from Alaska or Hawaii. Look at a map!

Several people brought up nuclear armed Tomahawks. That information is out of date. As Wikipedia states, "As of 2019, only non-nuclear, sea-launched variants assembled by Raytheon are currently in service."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)


https://www.airforcemag.com/box092613rapid/

1. Raptor deploys from Alaska with a 4 ship and C-17

2.Raptor swaps pilots at remote base.

3. Raptor Flies a few sorties and then relocates.

4. Raptor returns to Alaska. The same way it arrived.
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milosh

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Unread post24 Aug 2020, 19:47

jessmo112 wrote:So can srbms. There will be alot of missiles flying around.


And how you expect to hit Okinawa for example if you are firing against Taiwan? Also why would Chinese use bigger SRBM which can reach Okinawa when they have smaller ones which can reach Taiwan and they have probable noticable more those smaller ones. Their trajectory will be almost calculated so no alarm about imminent possible nuclear strike against Japan.

Also don't forget heavy MLRS Chinese are developing, it is so potent weapon that even Russians are afraid of them, we are talking about MLRS with six to eight rockets with +300km range and with PGM.
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jessmo112

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Unread post24 Aug 2020, 20:20

milosh wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:So can srbms. There will be alot of missiles flying around.


And how you expect to hit Okinawa for example if you are firing against Taiwan? Also why would Chinese use bigger SRBM which can reach Okinawa when they have smaller ones which can reach Taiwan and they have probable noticable more those smaller ones. Their trajectory will be almost calculated so no alarm about imminent possible nuclear strike against Japan.

Also don't forget heavy MLRS Chinese are developing, it is so potent weapon that even Russians are afraid of them, we are talking about MLRS with six to eight rockets with +300km range and with PGM.


He ststed that Japan couldn't be hit by SRBMs. I pointed out he was wrong. And if you dont have air superiority then all of the MLRS on earth don't mean beans!
The heavy MLRS sounds like a copy of the HIMARS.
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milosh

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Unread post24 Aug 2020, 20:50

jessmo112 wrote:He ststed that Japan couldn't be hit by SRBMs. I pointed out he was wrong. And if you dont have air superiority then all of the MLRS on earth don't mean beans!


It is very questionable how US (I doubt you meant Taiwan) can achieved air superoity over mainland China, but even if that happen here is nice lesson from history:
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... 08.ch3.pdf

btw SCUDs are lot harded to hide then MLRS ;)

jessmo112 wrote:The heavy MLRS sounds like a copy of the HIMARS.


There isn't nothing similar between heavy MLRS and HIMARS.

For example WS-2 have six 400mm rockets each is around 1250kg, while HIMARS big rocket (SRBM to be precise) is 600mm and 1700kg. HIMARS can fire only one such missile.

In fact if you want to find out closest US system to operational WS-2 it is DeepStrike which is in development in US:

https://i2.wp.com/militaryleak.com/wp-c ... .jpg?ssl=1
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jessmo112

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Unread post25 Aug 2020, 00:05

No its not questionable.

1. Totally annihilate the Chinese navy and Chinese
Airforce buy sinking everything and destroying every Chinese Airfield in the attack corridor.

2. Destroy all advanced sams in the corridor.
All HQ-9s and S-300s in the Corridor must die.
Even the ones hiding must be hunted down.

3. Bring in F-35s to hunt down or triangulate the launch of Ballistic missiles.

4. Bring conventional air power in closer once the sams and ballistic missiles are roled back.

5. Start hitting the remaining Chinese bases outside the initial launch corridor.

We may take losses but the bottom line is that China has no way to stop the massive deployment of the U.S bomber force. China cant defeat the U.S navy or commit
Enough ballistic missiles to sink every ship and destroy every target in both Taiwan, Japan, Guam, the entire SCS.
And wherever the 7th fleet is.
We are just better than the Chinese.
Heck even our Johnsons are bigger.
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